Author Topic: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond  (Read 17629 times)

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Offline MJW

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2012, 01:31:44 AM »
Another potential advantage to having someone else handle an appeal of the bond decision is that if Judge Lester is thin skinned, he might be less inclined to hold O'Mara responsible for any pointed attacks on his legal reasoning.  Perhaps that's unfair to the judge, but I think not allowing O'Mara time to prepare for the revocation hearing, and then scheduling the next bond hearing almost a month later, suggests a certain degree of pettiness.

Offline Expy

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2012, 02:42:32 AM »
In O'Mara's (partial) defense, I will say that the issue of a large, newly-created defense fund is something that O'Mara almost certainly never encountered before.

He knew there was a web site and  a fund.  It was his responsibility to verify what was in that fund before making representations to the court about finances.   

If there was little or no money coming through the web site, knowing that -- and being able to verify that -- would have also been valuable.   He had to anticipate that the prosecution would raise questions about the fund in response to any representation about finances. 

It's a lawyer's job to anticipate this sort of thing.  This is the sort of mistake that a newby lawyer might make -- someone fresh out of law school without a whole lot of courtroom experience -- but anyone with significant trial experience has either had the experience of having testimony blow up when opposing counsel produces documentation... or seen it happen to someone else. 

If a client or family member makes a representations about something that can be easily documented -- whether its money, or a statement about where they were at a particular time -- the attorney needs to do his homework and get the documentation in hand before putting that person in the position of giving sworn testimony.   

I would find it very difficult to believe that O'Mara or any other experienced lawyer hasn't had a client lie to him in the past, especially when it comes to money.   

Offline unitron

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2012, 08:56:51 AM »
I agree in theory, but as a practical matter the facts do count -- and of course it depends a lot on what Judge Lester writes in an opinion.   

If the judge denies bail, then I would expect to see him writing a  opinion that muddies the waters somewhat by emphasizing the other issues beyond the misrepresentations, but also to come down very strong on how the misrepresentations as to finances undermine trustworthiness in a way that shows disrespect for the court and makes him feel that Zimmerman would be a flight risk.  (I'm not saying I agree with that argument -- that's just what I would expect to see the Judge write).

There's an old saying:  bad facts make bad law.  The problem is that sometimes appellate decision are results oriented. Appeals courts sometimes struggle to come to a resolution that seems to defy precedent--- even if they have to carve out a new legal exception or rationale.   So if Judge Lester writes an opinion that paints Zimmerman's role in a particularly negative way, that could very well impact the decision of reviewing courts.

Perhaps this is the old saying of which you are thinking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_cases_make_bad_law


Offline AJ

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Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2012, 10:06:38 AM »
I'll post the order as soon as I receive it. It's 9 pages -- he has to post 10%, can't open a bank account and must be on GPS.

Offline AJ

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2012, 10:08:21 AM »
I'll post the order as soon as I receive it. It's 9 pages -- he has to post 10%, can't open a bank account and must be on GPS.

Just posted it on the media thread, here it is: http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/SKMBT_363-V12070510360.pdf

Offline unitron

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2012, 10:23:20 AM »
Bond set to $1,000,000

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-05/news/os-george-zimmerman-bond-decision-20120705_1_bond-jail-george-zimmerman

Someone needs to explain to the judge the difference between "flaunt" and "flout".

Assuming Rene Stutzman quoted him correctly in that article.

Someone should also explain to him that once the money was donated, it was no longer "other people's money".

Not sure what good it does to keep him from having a bank account.  I doubt PayPal would be willing to let anything be linked to it.  I also doubt he'd have anything to put into it, as his only income source is the donations to the website that go into the trustee operated account.

Offline cboldt

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2012, 10:25:48 AM »
My quick take is that the judge does not have the "presumption of innocence" thing going.  He finds that Zimmerman was preparing to flee, but was thwarted (bottom of p6).

Lester sees nothing unreasonable in Zimmerman being charged with murder.  He suggests that Zimmerman should have expected to be charged.

He suggests that the state charge Zimmerman with the crime of misrepresenting funds, too.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2012, 10:29:24 AM »
My quick take is that the judge does not have the "presumption of innocence" thing going.  He finds that Zimmerman was preparing to flee, but was thwarted (bottom of p6).

Lester sees nothing unreasonable in Zimmerman being charged with murder.  He suggests that Zimmerman should have expected to be charged.

He suggests that the state charge Zimmerman with the crime of misrepresenting funds, too.

I agree. Change of venue time?

Offline cboldt

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2012, 10:31:29 AM »
"Nothing presented which indicates he was misled into believing he would not be charged with a crime"

Nothing presented to Lester.  O'Mara didn't do enough of an evidence dump last week.  He should have taken days, if that's what it took to inform Lester.  What about the town of Sanford press release that stated there was no probable cause?  Might that not go to Zimmerman believing he would not be charged with a crime?

This case is a great lesson on the fundamental fairness of the courts.  Hint - they aren't fair, and their mission is not justice.

Offline AJ

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2012, 10:50:54 AM »
The final sentence on page 6 gives me issue. The judge -knows- that Mr. Zimmerman turned his passport and the money over to Mr. O'Mara on his own accord. He didn't have to, he chose to. So he "thwarted" his own plans?

I have more issues, but that one is the one that strikes me the most.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2012, 11:00:07 AM »
Quote
Although there is no  record of flight to avoid prosecution, this Court finds that circumstances indicate that the Defendant was preparing to flee to aviod prosecution, but such plans were thwarted.

Preperation to flee is a flight risk. I guess Lester really wants to give the state those jail calls at trial as punishment.


Offline AghastInFL

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2012, 11:00:40 AM »
I see much read into sec. d. of the Order:
The Defendant shall not leave Seminole County without prior authorization of this Court.

Is this substantially different from the previous order? or exactly the same?

Offline unitron

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2012, 11:03:45 AM »
I see much read into sec. d. of the Order:
The Defendant shall not leave Seminole County without prior authorization of this Court.

Is this substantially different from the previous order? or exactly the same?

Yeah, last time he was allowed to hide out from the death threats out of state.

Offline cboldt

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Re: Zimmerman: Hearing to Re-Set Bond
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2012, 11:11:00 AM »
Yeah, last time he was allowed to hide out from the death threats out of state.

This time, Lester suggests at (e), that if the mob had mounted a credible threat of violence, that the release of Zimmerman would have posed a danger to the community.  IOW, even if Zimmerman is perfectly innocent, he should be kept in detention if any other member of the public would perpetrate a dangerous or illegal act if Zimmerman was to be released.

 

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