Author Topic: Stand Your Ground I  (Read 8188 times)

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Offline unitron

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Re: Stand Your Ground I
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2012, 10:11:11 AM »
So what you're really saying is that you don't want to answer the question. You should have just ignored it then. My question was rhetorical because everyone knows that as far as physical evidence goes, It all points to defense. Now if you want to talk about woulda coulda shoulda and inconsistencies, the Prosecution should have something to talk about all day long. "It's avoidable" or "He had two chances" aren't a good enough reason to charge someone with manslaughter, though the prosecution felt it necessary to charge George with Second degree murder. So what's their evidence? That question is to anyone. Does the prosecution have any evidence that isn't character based speculation?


I'm getting really tired of people who insist that I "pick a side" instead of just trying to figure out what happened without confusing facts and conjecture with one another.

Offline Jozz

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Re: Stand Your Ground I
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2012, 10:16:31 AM »

I'm getting really tired of people who insist that I "pick a side" instead of just trying to figure out what happened without confusing facts and conjecture with one another.

I never said pick a side so please don't get so emotional. If you don't want to answer my questions you don't have to.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Stand Your Ground I
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2012, 02:50:28 PM »
Mr. Filexican, I did  answer your question on whether someone who is committing another felony is precluded from using deadly force in self-defense. But I will make one more attempt: In order for that bar to apply, the Defendant has to be charged with a forcible felony that is independent from the felony for which he claims self-defense.

George Zimmerman is not charged with an independent forcible felony. He is only charged with one felonius act -- killing Trayvon Martin.

To make it clearer, I have highlighted the 2011 case of State v. Johnson which clearly says so.

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The Florida Supreme Court amended Florida Standard Criminal Jury Instruction 3.6(f) to clarify that
the trial court should only include the aggressor instruction when the defendant has been charged with a contemporaneous independent forcible felony other than the one for which the defendant claims self-defense pursuant to Giles v. State, 831 So. 2d 1263 (Fla. 4th DCA 2002). In re Standard Jury Instructions in Criminal Cases (2007-3), 976 So. 2d 1081 (Fla. 2008).

I have also highlighted the Florida jury instruction 3.6 on this point (2010 edition) which states the same thing.

Because George Zimmerman is not charged with an independent forcible felony, the first section of the aggressor statute does not apply to him, even if he was the aggressor. If he was the aggressor, the second section would apply, but that allows him to assert self-defense so long as he was reasonably in fear of serious bodily injury or death, and he had no alternative lesser means available to avoid the danger he feared.

I hope this is clear. Also, you will have to find another forum to post on because I perceive your continued use of Jorge as George Zimmerman's first name is intended as an insult. You have not provided an alternative explanation. Insults are not allowed here.  Thank you for stopping by , and for your interest in the legal aspect of the case.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 08:11:40 PM by TalkLeft »

Offline Redbrow

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Re: Stand Your Ground I
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2012, 03:13:48 PM »
Mr. Filexican is an obvious troll who came here to provoke in order to validate his self-fulfilling prophecy of bias and intolerance.

from his recent youtube posts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvWs1DgTcW4&feature=plcp
 
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I signed up for the forum. Wonder how long it'll take me to get banned for hate speech. On the plus side, though. They don't seem to have any Anti-Filexican filters installed. Thanks for posting the information.
SuperFilexican 22 hours ago


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Those people at the talkleft "discussion" forum are nothing but another hovel of Zimmerbots, man. "Please don't call him Jorge." "I find your use of the word Jorge offensive!" BAHAHAHA!!! White people.
SuperFilexican in reply to DiwataMan2 (Show the comment) 6 hours ago

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Stand Your Ground I
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2012, 03:19:27 PM »
Mr. Filexican is an obvious troll who came here to provoke in order to validate his self-fulfilling prophecy of bias and intolerance.

He will be banned if he continues to post here referring to George as Jorge or spread his other intolerant messages. I answered him because I think many people don't understand that the forcible felony section of the aggressor statute is inapplicable to this case, even though there is so much case law, a statute and a jury instruction explaining the difference between the first and second sections of the statute.

Offline Aussie54

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Re: Stand Your Ground I
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2012, 03:25:50 PM »
I was posting in the two threads under the Self-Defense heading. Maybe I'm a little mixed up here.

Say Jorge attempted to kidnap Trayvon Martin without drawing his firearm. Everything else played out like it did.

I already know you can't kill somebody in an attempt to flee a crime.

It can't simply be that the commission of a felony is the equivalent of the forfeiture of a person's right to life in the land of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If I attempt to rob your liquor store with a firearm, drop the firearm on your side of the counter and then kneel to plead for my life you wouldn't be justified in shooting me.

I don't remember the outcome of that one pharmacist who walked up to the kid laying on the ground and continued to shoot him, but I do know he was arrested. There was no threat.

Likewise, there was no threat from a screaming, crying Jorge. At least that's my reasoning.

This is where your reasoning is totally flawed. The only felony that was committed was that of assault and battery and the person committing that felony was Trayvon Martin.

There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that George Zimmerman was committing any form of felony. I would think that walking along a path going back to one's car (after thinking that he had lost the person he had spotted) is not a felony in anyone's language!!

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Stand Your Ground I
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2012, 05:52:32 PM »
Just a note: When replying to someone's comment, you can click on the quote button and when their entire comment comes up in your screen, delete the parts you aren't replying to. Just make sure there's still a bracketed quote at the begininng and end of the part you are quoting.

Also, if you see a comment that is likely to be deleted, don't quote it in your reply, because then I have to delete your reply as well, or else the objectionable comment will still be available.

I removed Mr. Felixican's last post, inviting me to ban him. Let's just move past him. I'll decide whether to delete all of his posts at a later time. 

Offline unitron

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Re: Stand Your Ground I
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2012, 10:24:23 AM »
Just a note: When replying to someone's comment, you can click on the quote button and when their entire comment comes up in your screen, delete the parts you aren't replying to. Just make sure there's still a bracketed quote at the begininng and end of the part you are quoting.

Also, if you see a comment that is likely to be deleted, don't quote it in your reply, because then I have to delete your reply as well, or else the objectionable comment will still be available.

I removed Mr. Felixican's last post, inviting me to ban him. Let's just move past him. I'll decide whether to delete all of his posts at a later time.

But when you delete part of a quote, be honest enough, unlike certain representatives of the State of Florida, to insert ellipses. :)

 

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