State v. George Zimmerman (Pre-Trial) > Self-Defense and Stand Your Ground

Which of These Scenarios Disqualifies Self Defense?

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RickyJim:
Suppose Zimmerman had claimed the following had happened as far as when his gun was drawn; the rest of his story remains the same.  Which would disqualify him from claiming self defense?

1. Zimmerman left his Honda with his gun drawn.  He sees Martin and tells him get his hands up.  Martin refuses and struggles with Zimmerman over the control of the gun.

2.  Same as 1, but this time Martin surprises Zimmerman from behind and starts to wrestle with him for control of the gun.

3.  Zimmerman leaves vehicle with gun in holster.  He claims that Martin comes up to him at the T in a menacing manner and he draws his gun instead of cellphone and then the struggle commences.

Lousy1:
Actually depending on what follows. None of the the three scenarios inherently disqualifies stand your ground. It depends what happens prior to the shooting.

If Martin had control of the situation and the gun and was pummeling Zimmerman so that Zimmerman feared great bodily harm, Zimmerman would be justified in pulling his second weapon.

Why be silly? There is absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman drew his gun until necessary. He almost waited too long.

Do we discuss the legalities of extra terrestrial intervention next?

TalkLeft:

--- Quote from: RickyJim on July 03, 2012, 03:28:26 PM ---Suppose Zimmerman had claimed the following had happened as far as when his gun was drawn; the rest of his story remains the same.  Which would disqualify him from claiming self defense?

--- End quote ---

This is meaningless.  Please don't make stuff up and post it here. There's enough that is real to discuss  and debate, we don't need imaginary theories. 

Jozz:

--- Quote from: RickyJim on July 03, 2012, 08:21:22 PM ---It is not a meaningless question.   >:(  There are many who believe that Zimmerman wouldn't have left his vehicle without his gun drawn because he has made two statements that indicate he thought Martin might be armed.  Others think it improbable that Zimmerman reached for his cellphone instead of his gun when menacing Martin came right up to him at the T.  And still many more including Chris Sereno find Zimmerman's description of the fight for the gun incomprehensible.  So when does the prosecution think the gun came out?   It is interesting to understand how Zimmerman's self defense claims would hold up even if the prosecution convinces the jury that the gun came out earlier.

--- End quote ---

IF he would have pulled his gun, the main focus of the injuries to George would have been his hands and arms as it would be the focus of the altercation. There is absolutely no evidence that suggests that the firearm was drawn or that George drew on Trayvon at any point before the altercation became physical.

Do you have any evidence that supports such a theory? ANY?

TalkLeft:

--- Quote from: RickyJim on July 03, 2012, 08:21:22 PM ---There are many who believe that Zimmerman wouldn't have left his vehicle....Others think it improbable...

--- End quote ---

The state has not alleged it. Serino didn't allege it. No witness saw anything in George's hand. You cite no facts to support it, just "some people believe." That's just gossip.

Also from the interview (part 1) on Feb 29 with Singleton and Serino:


--- Quote ---DS: When he comes up to your car you’re telling them, right? That he’s…
GZ: Yes
DS: He’s reaching in his waistband?
GZ: Yes, ma’am.
DS: So what do you think there’s a possibility that he has?
GZ: Well, the guy 3 weeks, 2 weeks prior, did the same thing when he saw me, like put his hand in his jacket and watched me walk by and then he lit a cigarette. So I thought that he was just trying to, um, look tough or intimidate….
DS: You didn’t think he had a weapon?
GZ: No, no. I didn’t….
DS: You thought he was just trying to bluff you.
GZ: Yes, ma’am.
CS: Hey, did that scare you? The bluff?
GZ: No.

--- End quote ---

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