Author Topic: Altamonte Family Practice  (Read 12536 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DebFrmHell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 954
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 11:18:01 AM »
By Dee Dee's tale, Zimmerman didn't need to run. A forty-five minute walk, with a fifteen minute rest at the mail kiosk, followed by a short run, left poor Martin so tuckered out he could only manage a Tim Conway shuffle. Zimmerman caught up to him at a Harvey Korman amble.

You are such a Dorf-fus!  8-)

But thanks for the smile this morning!

Offline turbo6

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 07:46:23 PM »
I am not aware of the benefits of using temaze for IBS. Over here the treatment for IBS is more fiber in the diet. However, temaze is used for when there are sleep difficulties. Another in the same family is used to treat muscle spasm.  Most of these things react differently for various conditions.

It is only when taken illegally that there is likely to be a problem.

Sorry if I was unclear, temazepam is indeed for sleep while Librax is generally for IBS. Most drugs in the same class (benzodiazepines) as temazepam have some muscle relaxing properties, with Valium probably being the most potent. Librax is made up of two drugs, one of which is also a benzodiazepine (chlordiazepoxide) which is said to relax the stomach and ease IBS.

Point being a patient on two benzos should be pretty relaxed and hardly aggressive.

Its difficult for me to believe Zimmerman, who not that long ago admitted on a 911 call that he would absolutely not want to confront the suspect, truly had the intent to "capture" TM. He could have easily done so right by Frank Taaffe's house, or at the clubhouse, or sitting in his truck as TM approached on TTL.

It makes no sense that passing on all those opportunities, GZ just all of a sudden decided "OK, I'll get him now!" and ran after him on foot into the darkness thinking he would actually catch a younger and slender person who could easily outrun a person like himself.

It makes much more sense that, like many of his other calls, he simply wanted to keep an eye on the suspect. I'm sure as Zimmerman exited the vehicle the next glimpse he thought he'd see of TM would be him running 100 yards in front of him heading for the back gate.

Except, unlike all of the other ones who simply ran, this particular one decided to stay close by....


Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2012, 09:18:18 PM »
Sorry if I was unclear, temazepam is indeed for sleep while Librax is generally for IBS. Most drugs in the same class (benzodiazepines) as temazepam have some muscle relaxing properties, with Valium probably being the most potent. Librax is made up of two drugs, one of which is also a benzodiazepine (chlordiazepoxide) which is said to relax the stomach and ease IBS.

Point being a patient on two benzos should be pretty relaxed and hardly aggressive.

Its difficult for me to believe Zimmerman, who not that long ago admitted on a 911 call that he would absolutely not want to confront the suspect, truly had the intent to "capture" TM. He could have easily done so right by Frank Taaffe's house, or at the clubhouse, or sitting in his truck as TM approached on TTL.

It makes no sense that passing on all those opportunities, GZ just all of a sudden decided "OK, I'll get him now!" and ran after him on foot into the darkness thinking he would actually catch a younger and slender person who could easily outrun a person like himself.

It makes much more sense that, like many of his other calls, he simply wanted to keep an eye on the suspect. I'm sure as Zimmerman exited the vehicle the next glimpse he thought he'd see of TM would be him running 100 yards in front of him heading for the back gate.

Except, unlike all of the other ones who simply ran, this particular one decided to stay close by....

Except that jumping out of his truck to do so in the dark and the rain made no sense when he could drive down to the back entrance far faster than Martin could get there on foot, which would have left him with both a roof over his head and headlights that could provide more illumination than any flashlight.

Offline Lousy1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4058
  • Rate Post +6/-30
  • Fetch my hammer
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 09:32:07 PM »
Except that jumping out of his truck to do so in the dark and the rain made no sense when he could drive down to the back entrance far faster than Martin could get there on foot, which would have left him with both a roof over his head and headlights that could provide more illumination than any flashlight.

You are correct. If he had decide to follow Martin. Not if he was just waiting for the cops

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2012, 06:14:58 AM »
Zimmerman, who not that long ago admitted on a 911 call that he would absolutely not want to confront the suspect,

All of Zimmerman's suspicious persons calls were non-emergency, except for one he made years ago from a different neighborhood.

There are two ways to tell the difference. You can listen to the call, or look up the record. Details.

I think the call you have in mind was on February 2.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Giving Chase
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2012, 07:08:39 AM »
It makes no sense that passing on all those opportunities, GZ just all of a sudden decided "OK, I'll get him now!" and ran after him on foot into the darkness thinking he would actually catch a younger and slender person who could easily outrun a person like himself.

I think Zimmerman trying to detain Martin is far-fetched for reasons that aren't on topic here. The above argument isn't convincing.

Stamina is largely a function of how much exercise a person gets, with probably some genetic variation. Age matters, but the difference between late teens and late twenties isn't that great.

Body weight is a function of exercise, food intake, and different genetic factors, particularly regarding metabolism.

An overweight person can have good stamina, and a skinny person can have poor stamina.

I was always skinny as a kid, but I wasn't always in good shape, and I was never very athletic.

If Zimmerman's running was seriously inhibited by his lower back problem, that's another matter. But I don't know if that's been proven.

Offline leftwig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2012, 09:08:35 AM »
Except that jumping out of his truck to do so in the dark and the rain made no sense when he could drive down to the back entrance far faster than Martin could get there on foot, which would have left him with both a roof over his head and headlights that could provide more illumination than any flashlight.

That seems to be assuming that Z knew exactly where TM was going to run.  Given what people have said about him getting out of his car to see where TM ran, can you imagine what they would have said if he had chased him down in his car?  IF he does this with his car and TM gets hurt, then Z would have been liable for sure.

Offline Raoul

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Giving Chase
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2012, 11:31:36 AM »
I think Zimmerman trying to detain Martin is far-fetched for reasons that aren't on topic here. The above argument isn't convincing.

Stamina is largely a function of how much exercise a person gets, with probably some genetic variation. Age matters, but the difference between late teens and late twenties isn't that great.

Body weight is a function of exercise, food intake, and different genetic factors, particularly regarding metabolism.

An overweight person can have good stamina, and a skinny person can have poor stamina.

I was always skinny as a kid, but I wasn't always in good shape, and I was never very athletic.

If Zimmerman's running was seriously inhibited by his lower back problem, that's another matter. But I don't know if that's been proven.

Take a look at those shoes/boots GZ was wearing. He's not going to be able to run very fast in them.

Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2012, 01:31:14 PM »
That seems to be assuming that Z knew exactly where TM was going to run.  Given what people have said about him getting out of his car to see where TM ran, can you imagine what they would have said if he had chased him down in his car?  IF he does this with his car and TM gets hurt, then Z would have been liable for sure.

Oh, please. I didn't say he had to burn rubber or go off-road, and I didn't say chase him with the truck, I was talking about driving to where he expected Martin to wind up.

 If his truck is facing the way he said it was, he sees Martin run to the east, turn right somewhere and disappear (and assumes he's headed to the back entrance to "escape").

He drives south down Twin Trees, where he can see that Martin is not in the middle of the road, turns left, and he and his headlights are able to take up a surveillance position.

And if he's still so desperate for a Retreat View Circle address at the east end of the cut-through, he can drive north up RVC from there to get it.

Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2012, 01:39:58 PM »
You are correct. If he had decide to follow Martin. Not if he was just waiting for the cops

If he was just waiting for the cops, he could have stayed out of the rain in his truck.

If he desperately needed that RVC address at the east end of the cut-through, he could drive south on TTL, bear left after passing Long Oak Way on the right, then turn left again onto the east leg of RVC and go north, and get to the same point, probably almost as quickly as he could have walked it west to east.

Then both he and his truck would be where he was going to meet with the cops.

Offline Lousy1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4058
  • Rate Post +6/-30
  • Fetch my hammer
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2012, 02:16:02 PM »
If he was just waiting for the cops, he could have stayed out of the rain in his truck.

If he desperately needed that RVC address at the east end of the cut-through, he could drive south on TTL, bear left after passing Long Oak Way on the right, then turn left again onto the east leg of RVC and go north, and get to the same point, probably almost as quickly as he could have walked it west to east.

Then both he and his truck would be where he was going to meet with the cops.

If he desperately needed  that RVC address at the east end of the cut-through he could walk 40 feet. About the same distance as back to his truck.

 I agree the back entrance was the probable destination of TM . I also agree if GZ wanted to do more than simply wait and make a report, then his truck was a good option. That he didn't use the truck speaks volumes.

I personally would be in no hurry to scrunch in my truck while waiting for, who knows how long?

Offline leftwig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2012, 02:31:02 PM »
Oh, please. I didn't say he had to burn rubber or go off-road, and I didn't say chase him with the truck, I was talking about driving to where he expected Martin to wind up.

 If his truck is facing the way he said it was, he sees Martin run to the east, turn right somewhere and disappear (and assumes he's headed to the back entrance to "escape").

He drives south down Twin Trees, where he can see that Martin is not in the middle of the road, turns left, and he and his headlights are able to take up a surveillance position.

And if he's still so desperate for a Retreat View Circle address at the east end of the cut-through, he can drive north up RVC from there to get it.

That is your assumption of what Z thinks at the moment TM runs.  He may have come to that conclusion later, although while giving his address to the dispatcher he pauses and says he doesn't know where TM is, so it appears even at this point he hasn't assumed TM made his escape through the back entrance.

To get to a position where he could use his headlights and shine them down the dog walk area, he'd have to commit one or more traffic violations.  Say he see's Martin with his headlights and Martin dashes between the buildings, is Z supposed to continue pursuing in his vehicle?  Would this not be considered a chase?  IF Martin runs out into the road to evade Z who is chasing him in his vehicle, would not Z be criminally liable?

I'm not saying what you suggest is not a possible action Z could have taken.  Its just not my assumption that it represents the most logical action for Z to take.  The kid ran on foot where he'd unlikely be able to see him from his car no matter where he drove.  If Z's intent is to maintain a visual or even follow Martin until police arrive, I think he took the most logical course of action.

Offline Lousy1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4058
  • Rate Post +6/-30
  • Fetch my hammer
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2012, 02:36:17 PM »
If Z's intent is to maintain a visual or even follow Martin until police arrive, I think he took the most logical course of action.

Since he was not in sight of TM from the moment Zimmerman lost him until he was attacked  by TM why would his position somewhere on the crosswalk be optimal for either maintaining a visual or following TM?

Offline turbo6

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Giving Chase
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2012, 05:27:47 PM »
I think Zimmerman trying to detain Martin is far-fetched for reasons that aren't on topic here. The above argument isn't convincing.

Stamina is largely a function of how much exercise a person gets, with probably some genetic variation. Age matters, but the difference between late teens and late twenties isn't that great.

Body weight is a function of exercise, food intake, and different genetic factors, particularly regarding metabolism.

An overweight person can have good stamina, and a skinny person can have poor stamina.

I was always skinny as a kid, but I wasn't always in good shape, and I was never very athletic.

If Zimmerman's running was seriously inhibited by his lower back problem, that's another matter. But I don't know if that's been proven.

That is a good point and all but TM was a football player in his teens. Zimmerman is well, just look at him.

Regardless, whatever your reasoning is, it seems unlikely GZ went into predator mode when he bumped into TM for the last time. Considering the guy practically sh*t his pants and asked when an officer would arrive when Martin approached the truck prior, its likely this time on foot was no different.

Offline Lousy1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4058
  • Rate Post +6/-30
  • Fetch my hammer
Re: Altamonte Family Practice
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2012, 05:34:04 PM »



Regardless, whatever your reasoning is, it seems unlikely GZ went into predator mode when he bumped into TM for the last time. Considering the guy practically sh*t his pants and asked when an officer would arrive when Martin approached the truck prior, its likely this time on foot was no different.
Every witness interviewed by the FBI characterized George as nonaggressive; even when provoked.

 

Site Meter
click
tracking