Author Topic: No Blood on Martin's hands  (Read 23726 times)

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Offline turbo6

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2012, 10:30:29 AM »
Based on the brevity of the fight, I wouldn't exactly imagine Martin's hands to be dripping with blood. Also when GZ attempted to restrain TM after the gunshot, spreading his hands whilst he was face down on the wet ground, I would imagine there's a chance any sparse blood on the hands could have been effectively wiped off.

Offline Jujube

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2012, 10:54:54 AM »
George Zimmerman's DNA was found in a blood stain on Trayvon Martin's sweatshirt-- Stain A.  His DNA might be on the lower left cuff/sleeve (not blood, just DNA).

Stains A, B, D and E showed chemical presence of blood.

Here is the description of stains ME-8-A through D and the swabbings of cuffs/sleeves tested for foreign DNA.

The lower left sleeve cut showed 2 people's DNA  and GZ's couldn't be ruled out.

Stain D, blood, with 2 people's DNA, shows DNA consistent with TM and GZ.

Stain E, blood, is Trayvon.

Has anything been released that shows exactly where these stains are located? 

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2012, 11:32:23 AM »
Has anything been released that shows exactly where these stains are located?

Not to date. 

Offline MJW

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2012, 10:18:10 PM »
Has anything been released that shows exactly where these stains are located?

An excellent addition to the new "missing discovery" thread.

Edit: I went to add it, but I see that Cylinder already mentioned it.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 10:22:10 PM by MJW »

Offline Jujube

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2012, 09:56:45 AM »
If you consider the human head -- 50% would be the front of the head (face) and 50% the back of the head -- (and the paramedic said that Zimmerman's head was 45% covered with blood) -- and then you consider that GZ said that Trayvon "concentrated on his head" during this one minute beating...

It's quite remarkable that there was no GZ blood or DNA found in the TM fingernail scrapings.

 

Offline Redbrow

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2012, 11:52:18 AM »
If you consider the human head -- 50% would be the front of the head (face) and 50% the back of the head -- (and the paramedic said that Zimmerman's head was 45% covered with blood) -- and then you consider that GZ said that Trayvon "concentrated on his head" during this one minute beating...

It's quite remarkable that there was no GZ blood or DNA found in the TM fingernail scrapings.

 
Zimmerman never claimed TM scratched him and there were no injuries consistent with being scratched so it is not remarkable at all that there was no GZ blood or DNA found in the TM fingernail scrapings.
 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 11:59:14 AM by Redbrow »

Offline AJ

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2012, 11:55:03 AM »
It's quite remarkable that there was no GZ blood or DNA found in the TM fingernail scrapings.

Not really. I've read a report done in Italy where they did statistics for finding foreign dna under fingernails of homicide victims. I forget the exact number, but most (much more than 50%) of the victim's fingernails were not of quality for such comparisons. Of the remaining (which was in the 60s, I believe) only about 8 of them had foreign DNA under the fingernails. Of course, this study was done over a period of time - 5 years, I believe - but it was an eye opener for me.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2012, 12:02:27 PM »
The CSI effect. People expect miracles.

Offline amateur

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2012, 01:07:10 PM »
It's quite remarkable that there was no GZ blood or DNA found in the TM fingernail scrapings.

I find it more remarkable that there was no blood or GZ dna on his cuffs.  If GZ was bleeding from the nose and TM was putting his hands over his nose and mouth, I would expect to see at least saliva on his cuffs if not blood.

Even the bloody head photo, taken soon after the fatal shot, did not look like 45% coverage, so I'm guessing most of the blood coverage must have happened after the fatal ending to the altercation.  Head wounds bleed a lot, plus it was raining, which would help the flow. 

Offline Redbrow

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2012, 01:25:57 PM »
I find it more remarkable that there was no blood or GZ dna on his cuffs.  If GZ was bleeding from the nose and TM was putting his hands over his nose and mouth, I would expect to see at least saliva on his cuffs if not blood.

Even the bloody head photo, taken soon after the fatal shot, did not look like 45% coverage, so I'm guessing most of the blood coverage must have happened after the fatal ending to the altercation.  Head wounds bleed a lot, plus it was raining, which would help the flow.

We cannot conclude for a fact whether or not there was GZ DNA present because the results were inconclusive.
http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk453/TalkLeft/zimmerman/meleftcuff-1.jpg

Offline Jujube

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2012, 02:43:19 PM »
Zimmerman never claimed TM scratched him and there were no injuries consistent with being scratched so it is not remarkable at all that there was no GZ blood or DNA found in the TM fingernail scrapings.

DNA also can be found in sweat, saliva, skin cells.  Trayvon put his hands over GZ's mouth and nose, according to GZ.   Did Trayvon somehow avoid using his fingers to do any of this?  Did he handle GZ's head without using his fingers?   

 

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2012, 03:01:26 PM »
DNA also can be found in sweat, saliva, skin cells.  Trayvon put his hands over GZ's mouth and nose, according to GZ.   Did Trayvon somehow avoid using his fingers to do any of this?  Did he handle GZ's head without using his fingers?   

 

To the best of my knowledge TM's hands weren't bagged. It was raining. The grass was wet. The body lay outside for quite a while.

This has all been discussed repeatedly.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: No Blood on Martin's hands
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2012, 03:08:37 PM »
DNA also can be found in sweat, saliva, skin cells.  Trayvon put his hands over GZ's mouth and nose, according to GZ.   Did Trayvon somehow avoid using his fingers to do any of this?  Did he handle GZ's head without using his fingers?   

 

I cannot find anything that suggests that his hands were bagged.  There had been intermittent rain, he was face down in wet grass, and body movement by SPD/EMS.

So there are factors involved but who knows... 

As for not getting blood under the nails, think about holding a bowling ball without using the finger holes.  GZ had abrasions but there was nothing to suggest that he had been scratched by TM.

There was GZ's DNA on at least one of the cuffs.  We haven't seen any kind of a map that details where those swabbings came from.  Also, if you look at the picture of the grey undershirt, you can see stains on one of the cuffs, IIRC.  It has been a while since I looked at it. 

Quote
Quoting myself....
About ME-8

ME-8 is the shirt of Trayvon Martin.  There was chemical indications of blood on that shirt for Stains A, B, D, and E.  Stain C was negative for the presence of blood.

"Swabbings were collected from the cuff/lower sleeve regions of both arms of  on both arms of  Exhibit ME-8 to determine the presence of any foreign DNA..

STR DNA analysis was performed on samples from Exhibit ME-8 (Stains A, B, D, E and swabbings from the cuff/lower sleeve regions) utilizing AmpF/STR Profiler Plus and AmpF/STR COfiler PCR Amplification Kits."

Stain A matched the DNA of George Zimmerman.   Stain B matched the DNA of Trayvon Martin.  Stain D had major and minor contributors and while the DNA couldn't be matched, both Zimmerman and Martin are included as possible contributors.  Stain E was matched to the DNA of Martin.

Pages 3-4 of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Laboratory Results dated march 26th, 2012.

Jeralyn has stated the same.

 

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