Author Topic: Witness 6 - "John"  (Read 22362 times)

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Offline unitron

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2012, 12:22:55 PM »
I assume the quotes are yours, though I do believe Z mentioned something about no one coming to help has he screamed out.  I don't recall him saying anything like he was thinking of shooting Martin and had the gun at the ready, but when John went back inside is when he decided to pull the trigger.  Probably was more like the catalyst for him to feel like if he can't get out of this situation myself, he might die prompting him to think/go for his gun.

I thought Zimmerman's version was that Martin noticed the gun and started going for it and that's when he remembered "Oh, yeah, I've got a gun", and grabbed it before Martin could.

And presumably used it before Martin could take it away from him.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2012, 01:05:07 PM »
I assume the quotes are yours, though I do believe Z mentioned something about no one coming to help has he screamed out.  I don't recall him saying anything like he was thinking of shooting Martin and had the gun at the ready, but when John went back inside is when he decided to pull the trigger.  Probably was more like the catalyst for him to feel like if he can't get out of this situation myself, he might die prompting him to think/go for his gun.

I believe you can hear the gun on Johns 911 call. So there was at least enough time for John to reenter his house, get to a phone an dial.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2012, 01:11:25 PM »
I thought Zimmerman's version was that Martin noticed the gun and started going for it and that's when he remembered "Oh, yeah, I've got a gun", and grabbed it before Martin could.

And presumably used it before Martin could take it away from him.

I wouldn't argue with your statement here, but the one I was referencing was the one that said John "caused" the shooting because Z said no one would help so "I had to shoot him".  I don't think what you say here matches that description.

Lousy, I don't think John got on the phone with 911 until almost a minute after the shot (locked the door went and got his fiance to go upstairs for safety, then called).

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2012, 01:37:44 PM »
I wouldn't argue with your statement here, but the one I was referencing was the one that said John "caused" the shooting because Z said no one would help so "I had to shoot him".  I don't think what you say here matches that description.

Lousy, I don't think John got on the phone with 911 until almost a minute after the shot (locked the door went and got his fiance to go upstairs for safety, then called).

That sounds reasonable to me.

Offline Marilyn

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2012, 03:40:12 PM »
But, on March 20, Witness #6 swore, both orally on the police tape and in his written statement, that he was already on the phone with 911 when he heard the shot. His 911 call began at 7:18pm.

What was Witness #6 really doing when the shot was fired? It is easy to prove he was not yet connected to 911. Why would he say this when more than a minute separates these two events? Surely misrepresenting the time of the gunshot on a sworn statement during a police investigation calls into question the rest of Witness #6's story.

Offline MJW

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2012, 09:37:52 PM »
But, on March 20, Witness #6 swore, both orally on the police tape and in his written statement, that he was already on the phone with 911 when he heard the shot. His 911 call began at 7:18pm.

His written statement does not say whether he was on the phone with 911.  It says:

Quote
I said I was calling the cops, and ran upstairs, then heard a gun shot.  Then I got upstairs.  I saw the guy on top who was hitting the guy in the red layed out on the grass as if he had been shot.

I'm not sure how much this calls into question the rest of of your comment, but I mainly wanted to ask how you know W6 began his 911 call at 7:18 pm.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2012, 10:13:21 PM »
His written statement does not say whether he was on the phone with 911.  It says:

I'm not sure how much this calls into question the rest of of your comment, but I mainly wanted to ask how you know W6 began his 911 call at 7:18 pm.

In his audio, 45 minute statement John states that he had just dialed 911 and was connecting when he heard the shot. No shot can be heard on Johns 911 tape.  He also states that ran upstairs while still on the 911 phonecall  and witnessed the crime scene, as other witnesses began to round the corner with flashlights.

From my vantage point the 2 page FDLE summary of the 45 minute conversation is  lacking.
Look yourself. (The official TL site link listed under witness 6 FDLE is broken)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUvBZicWPDE

I can't wait to hear his testimony when responding to defense questioning.
Can't imagine the state will call John as a witness. His oral statement is devastating to the prosecution. John comes across as calm, cautious and observant.

Offline Juan

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2012, 10:15:39 PM »
Even though "John" has backed off declaring GZ was the one pleading for help he does stick by his assumption it was the person on the bottom. When he first witnessed the two, TM was in the mounted position with his back facing him. GZ (in red) was the underneath facing "John" which makes the pleas for help more clear to him over coming from TM whose back was facing him. He couldn't see GZ's face due to it being blocked by TM so he can't say for certain the words were coming from GZ's mouth. This is addressed in his interview with FDLE & the link listed here now comes up as a 404 error, but can be found on youtube. I think his testimony will help establish the cry's for help were indeed coming from GZ.


Offline AJ

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2012, 10:18:01 PM »
This link works for all of the witnesses that I've been able to find: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/state/more-evidence-in-the-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-case-released-to-the-public

Let me know if it's missing any. Also, I recommend downloading them so you have them at your disposal ;)

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2012, 06:20:55 PM »
I've posted the full transcript of John's March 20 interview here. It's 15 pages.

Ill fix the link to the his audio on our audio page if it's broken.  I got the audio links from the ABC Action News site linked above, but a few don't work.

Offline AghastInFL

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2012, 05:24:31 PM »
Thanks, that's just another point of corroboration concerning Zimmerman's account - he claimed that when W6 poked his head out that he begged W6 for help.
I was reminded when reading GZ's account of begging for help of this article in the WaPo and the alternate audio engineers, ,although his findings inferred the younger voice was screaming what I found interesting is what he hears the voice screaming.... "I'm begging you..." and before the shot "stop..."  it sure fits EXACTLY what George says he was shouting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martin-case-911-call-two-experts-reach-two-much-different-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

Offline txantimedia

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2012, 09:03:55 AM »
I was reminded when reading GZ's account of begging for help of this article in the WaPo and the alternate audio engineers, ,although his findings inferred the younger voice was screaming what I found interesting is what he hears the voice screaming.... "I'm begging you..." and before the shot "stop..."  it sure fits EXACTLY what George says he was shouting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martin-case-911-call-two-experts-reach-two-much-different-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html
The crux of that entire article is this:
Quote
“Most trial lawyers believe, and most psychologists who study the way that people process information believe, that once people interpret something in a certain way, once they begin to believe something, they become committed to that,” he said. “And if they become committed, it’s hard to change their minds.”
The "expert" Reich believes Zimmerman murdered Martin in cold blood, so he's certain it's Martin's voice.  All his expertise was applied to "proving" that.  The FBI expert, OTOH, is much more circumspect, showing that he's approaching the tape from an analytical perspective not an emotional one.

Offline Philly

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2012, 01:23:40 PM »
The transcript is interesting.  It's long, not because W6 had much to say, but because he was repeatedly asked about what he did and did not observe, with the interviewer returning to the same core questions.  It seems a fair and thorough interview to me - no leading questions.  The interviewer did not appear to have any biases or agenda, other than probing John's account.

The fact that the scuffle moved a significant distance in a short time, without Trayvon ever losing top position is telling.  While John notes he didn't actually observe Trayvon landing blows, Trayvon was well positioned to do so, and the interview doesn't rule out that John's initial impression of "MMA-style punches" (cooraborated by GZ's actual facial injuries) may well have been accurate.  The interview also tilts in GZ's favor that GZ was probably the one screaming, with John giving objective reasons why he still thinks it was, even if he didn't see George's lips moving in the dark.

During the time of W6's observations, GZ and TM apparently weren't clumsily "rolling around" as two untrained people scuffling might do.  Trayvon would have had to have good balance and positioning to thoroughly dominate as he did.  It will be interesting to see if GZ's defense can uncover any further evidence of Trayvon's comfort level with hand to hand combat.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2012, 04:39:05 PM »
The crux of that entire article is this:The "expert" Reich believes Zimmerman murdered Martin in cold blood, so he's certain it's Martin's voice.  All his expertise was applied to "proving" that.  The FBI expert, OTOH, is much more circumspect, showing that he's approaching the tape from an analytical perspective not an emotional one.

I still want to know how he (Reich) was able to get a tape of Martin's voice.  I mean, he has to have something to compare it to, right?

Offline Philly

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2012, 05:19:45 PM »
Too funny!  But seriously, Reich's analysis sounds credible, if you simply replace "the younger voice" with "the younger sounding voice."  The higher-pitched, frightened vocalizations make complete sense coming from the injured person on bottom (Zimmerman).  Reich's references to a "deeper, more authoritative voice" is consistent with GZ's descriptions of Trayvon cursing at him during the struggle.


I still want to know how he (Reich) was able to get a tape of Martin's voice.  I mean, he has to have something to compare it to, right?

 

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