Author Topic: Witness 6 - "John"  (Read 22160 times)

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Offline Philly

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Re: Witness 6
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2012, 05:30:46 PM »
Regarding confusing punching with grappling,  John states:

"in my first statement that I made, I did say that he was hitting him from on top, um, because that's what it looked like. I mean he could have still been hitting him, or he could have been trying to hold him down, you know."


Interesting is the word "still" - it sounds like John knows that George had been hit.

Keep in mind the following:
- there was no "static holding GZ in position" at that point in time.  John describes movement while he observed them struggling.

- when trying to stay on top of a person that is struggling to get up/escape, you need to keep clearing the bottom person's arms, and alternatively post your own on the ground to keep balance - almost a swimming motion.

- from John's perspective (behind Trayvon), the act of struggling to stay on top of GZ would (especially with poor lighting) look similar to Travyon striking George.  In either case, there would be movement of Trayvon's arms/hands.  John was clear that he couldn't quite see where or how Trayvon's hands were being used.

In this context, his statement about ambiguity makes perfect sense.

Even a casual fan of MMA, like John,  should understand a mount reference. It's a term used multiple times by announcers describing the action most rounds.
Since John could see Trayvon's upper body I don't think that statically holding GZ in position could be confused with punching. To me, John's testimony strongly suggests some violent activity on Treyvon's part. I think John admits that he can't distinguish the tactical motive for that activity.
I suspect the defense interview will help clarify John's observation. Its too bad we don't have a video of John's "Bam,bam, bam" interjection.

Offline AghastInFL

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2012, 11:56:14 AM »
Well John's drawing appeared today 9/19 and overturns a lot of the placement speculation.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-Discovery-Redacted-0919.pdf

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2012, 02:06:23 PM »
W6's previous calls to SPD/SCSO:

3/25/2012 04:37 PM Tresspass/Unwanted visitor
2/25/2012 01:37 PM Suspicious person
2/25/2012 08:11 PM Illegal Parking
8/22/2012 10:23 PM Noise complaint
5/08/2011 06:07 PM Illegal Parking
 
Even with the small sample size, it's interesting how his calls seemed to transition from inconveniences to security issues.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 02:08:30 PM by Cylinder »

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2012, 02:17:06 PM »
W6 seems to have spent over 3 minutes on hold. His call was connected at 1917:15 and picked up apparently at 1920:43. This supports his statement that he had turned away from the patio, grabbed the phone, dialed and started up the stairs when the gunshot was heard. W6 would have been dialing the phone or listening to rings when the shot went off.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2012, 04:23:12 PM »
Well John's drawing appeared today 9/19 and overturns a lot of the placement speculation.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-Discovery-Redacted-0919.pdf

W-6's drawing is on Page 4.

I've posted a cropped and rotated version for easier viewing.

There are two drawings, or sub-drawings, on the same paper. The first shows the wrestling pair on the grass, perpendicular to the sidewalk, directly before the center of W-6's back door. The second shows them on the sidewalk, parallel to its edges, with their feet even with the line on which their bodies had been.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 04:25:21 PM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2012, 04:37:28 PM »
Here is a full size copy of John's Drawing
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 04:39:38 PM by TalkLeft »

Offline MJW

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2013, 11:15:34 PM »
W6's previous calls to SPD/SCSO:

3/25/2012 04:37 PM Tresspass/Unwanted visitor
2/25/2012 01:37 PM Suspicious person
2/25/2012 08:11 PM Illegal Parking
8/22/2012 10:23 PM Noise complaint
5/08/2011 06:07 PM Illegal Parking
 
Even with the small sample size, it's interesting how his calls seemed to transition from inconveniences to security issues.

Where do you find the reason for the call? Is there a key to decipher the codes on the 911 log call histories?

Interesting that W6 called about a suspicious person the day before. (Though it's probably completely unrelated.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 11:19:12 PM by MJW »

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2013, 02:00:51 AM »
Is there a key to decipher the codes on the 911 log call histories?

Seminole County Dispatch Codes, courtesy of TalkLeft. Ms. Merritt has posted an excellent primer on decoding the 911 event logs.

Offline MJW

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2013, 02:55:31 AM »
Seminole County Dispatch Codes, courtesy of TalkLeft. Ms. Merritt has posted an excellent primer on decoding the 911 event logs.

Thank you (and TalkLeft) very much.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2013, 10:11:49 AM »
Ms. Merritt has posted an excellent [url=http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2187.msg102520.html#msg102520]primer on decoding the 911 event logs.

Thanks much.

Just yesterday I was wishing for that very thing.

Thanks to MJW for asking the question in the right place.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2013, 11:39:09 AM »
Responding to post on another thread.

During the 2nd bond hearing, O'Mara had W6 ready to testify at the hearing in case his written statement was rejected . . . O'Mara was quite confident with using W6's claim that there was MMA style punching.  So, I expect that once we hear from W6 again, he'll be pretty confident that he saw George getting punched.

O'Mara didn't predict what W-6 would testify to. He made a technically accurate statement about what W-6 had said in the past, just as de la Rionda made technically accurate statements about what W-2 had said in the past.

If W-6 reverts to his earlier statements, the FDLE interview will be used to impeach him. That would undermine his credibility on the other, more important parts of his testimony that support Zimmerman. Better for the defense that he not.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2013, 11:50:21 AM »
Responding to post on another thread.

W-2 went from being in one area of the house seeing 2 guys in a chase x feet apart to being in a different part of the house with her contacts out and not sure she saw anything other than some shadows.  I'm not sure their change in testimony is a fair comparison.

Mercury is a planet.

Jupiter is a planet.

Is that an unfair comparison? Or is it a pair of accurate statements?

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2013, 12:06:17 PM »
If W-6 reverts to his earlier statements, the FDLE interview will be used to impeach him. That would undermine his credibility on the other, more important parts of his testimony that support Zimmerman. Better for the defense that he not.

I disagree.  All he really did is express he wasn't sure of something he thinks he saw, while still stating he thinks it looked like punching.  Increased confidence in what he saw on further reflection wouldn't hurt any more than the FDLE not-recantation did IMO.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2013, 12:52:31 PM »
Responding to post on another thread.

Mercury is a planet.

Jupiter is a planet.

Is that an unfair comparison? Or is it a pair of accurate statements?

IF you are simply saying they are planets (non subjective definition), yes.  IF you are saying they are similar planets (applying subjectivity to their similarity), no.  I believe there is a level of subjectivity in saying these 2 witnesses recanted their testimony in a similar way.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 6 - "John"
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2013, 12:57:28 PM »
I believe there is a level of subjectivity in saying these 2 witnesses recanted their testimony in a similar way.

Has someone said that?

 

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