Author Topic: Witness #8 (DeeDee)  (Read 282718 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #195 on: August 05, 2012, 11:34:35 AM »
She does badly during the deposition they have time to coach hell out of her

If she says anything different on the stand than she did in the deposition, the deposition will be admissible to impeach her.

O'Mara has nothing to lose and much to gain by deposing her.

Offline whitecap333

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #196 on: August 05, 2012, 11:49:31 AM »
Just for the record, when I ask someone a question, I'm not necessarily trying to put words in their mouths.  It's just part of my unpolished conversational style. 

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #197 on: August 05, 2012, 12:31:53 PM »
The Court has protected DeeDee's identity so far. Please refrain from discussing her possible twitter accounts. If either side indicates an intent to introduce them, and they are confirmed to be her's, we can discuss it then. For now, please stick to her two statements and phone records.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #198 on: August 05, 2012, 04:53:31 PM »
Does anyone have an idea where DeeDee was the during that evenings phone calls? Are there witnesses that verify that claim?

She presents an unusual conversation that goes only one way. Why is TM's standing under overhead  such an important subject that it requires a detailed description?

The hours of conversation  must have been banal beyond relief. Otherwise how would  the mention of a particular  details of some temporary covering be significant enough to recall a month after the fact. Did TM seek shelter under any other covering during the rainy day jaunt?
What subjects were actually the basis of hours of phone conversation.

I don't believe that DeeDee would find that remarkable enough to remember as a 'mail room' ( unless she had been there before and had a reference - which I doubt)

Why would DeeDee's helpers feel that  detail was important enough to be added  DeeDee's story. I can understand why they added the hoodie references but...>

Could some one else have borrowed DeeDee's phone?


« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 05:04:46 PM by Lousy1 »

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #199 on: August 05, 2012, 05:05:37 PM »
Does anyone have an idea where DeeDee was the during that evenings phone calls? Are there witnesses that verify that claim?

She presents an unusual conversation that goes only one way. Why is TM's standing under overhead  such an important subject that it requires a detailed description?

The hours of conversation  must have been banal beyond relief. Otherwise how would  the mention of a particular  details of some temporary covering be significant enough to recall a month after the fact. Did TM seek shelter under any other covering during the rainy day jaunt?
What subjects were actually the basis of hours of phone conversation.

I don't believe that DeeDee would find that remarkable enough to remember as a 'mail room' ( unless she had been there before and had a reference - which I doubt)

Why would DeeDee's helpers feel that  detail was important enough to be added  DeeDee's story. I can understand why they added the hoodie references but...

Could some one else have borrowed DeeDee's phone?

Offline MJW

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #200 on: August 05, 2012, 07:18:44 PM »
DeeDee doesn't use the word "mail" in her description to Crump. After saying it began to rain, at 3:40:00-2:43:60 she says something that's not completely intelligible to me, but sounds sort of like, "so he went to the little, like the little apartment." The underlined words are the hardest to understand. I would appreciate someone with better ears than mine listening to it and giving their opinion.

I again recommend downloading the free program Audacity. Among many other useful features, you can select a region and loop the replay.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #201 on: August 05, 2012, 07:31:59 PM »
DeeDee doesn't use the word "mail" in her description to Crump. After saying it began to rain, at 3:40:00-2:43:60 she says something that's not completely intelligible to me, but sounds sort of like, "so he went to the little, like the little apartment." The underlined words are the hardest to understand. I would appreciate someone with better ears than mine listening to it and giving their opinion.

I again recommend downloading the free program Audacity. Among many other useful features, you can select a region and loop the replay.

Funny how it worked its way into her subsequent  De La F. interview

Offline MJW

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #202 on: August 05, 2012, 07:46:59 PM »
I, of course, meant 3:40:00-3:43:60.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #203 on: August 06, 2012, 02:19:32 AM »
Why would DeeDee's helpers feel that  detail was important enough to be added  DeeDee's story.

Maybe the PR people recommended that there be a specific geographical reference, to give the narrative some weight, some anchor to physical reality. Without the mail shelter, there is no such reference between the 7-11 and the Green home.

Offline tchoupi

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #204 on: August 08, 2012, 02:28:21 PM »
- she says TM is now out of breath (if he started running from the T and sprinted he would reach the back of BG's town home in maybe 10-15 seconds and if he was at a full sprint for that long, he'd be out of breath for maybe 30 seconds.)

1) From the T to BG's home there are 400ft.  It would take more than 15sec to run that distance.  It would actually be closer to 40sec as TM wasn't dressed for a sprint (he had a baggy pant).

2) You're assuming that he started running from the T.  He may as well as started running while on TTL or anywhere in between TTL and the T.  Indeed, GZ doesn't state TM's direction until after he exited his truck.  That gives ~7 seconds which could easily be translated as 70ft from the T.

3) You're also assuming that TM ran straight home.  DeeDee's statement is pretty clear about him hiding.  That's what she says when she states that he lowered his voice for a little while and then resumed walking home before being "cornered" a "couple" of minute later.

4) Finally you assume TM was an athlete.  Just take his height and his weight and you'll see he was a skinny kid.  Not a muscular kid.  He was probably not exercising much.  If on top of that he was used to smoking, that may not have helped him running.

- she says he's now by his fathers house.  (makes sense as it wouldn't have taken him too long to run from the T or area where Z was parked to reach his fathers house)

She actually says "He said he ainít gonna run, 'cause he said he's right by his fatherís house."
But she immediately adds "So, and in a couple minutes, he said the manís following him again, heís behind him.".  The meaning of "right by" and "couple of minutes" are relative.  For example, TM could have been  just 90sec walk away from home.   This is rather open to interpretation.

- after a brief explanation that he ran "from the back" and reiteration that he's by his fathers house, she says he "started walking back".  (its absolutely amazing to me that BDLR doesn't ask for any clarification of this statement as she has said he ran from Z and got to his dads house and is now walking back.  So if Z was behind him coming towards his fathers house, how can he be walking back towards him and be followed/chased by Z at the same time?)

That's because this is not what she said.  To sum it up, she said that 1) TM ran, 2) TM hids from GZ for a little while (TM lost GZ, his voice went low, she asked him to keep on running), & 3) TM resumes walking (He decided that he would walk because he lost GZ and he was right by his dad's).
The timing is key here and is still open to interpretation.  For example, assuming TM hid for 2minutes and GZ walked south for 2min on a different path like RVC, they could easily have swapped positions with GZ being further south than TM.
We can't claim DeeDee lies on this because she makes no statement of location as she is not a eyewitness and she has no knowledge of the  floorplan in the complex.  The only way to know would be either a eye witness of either GZ's or TM's whereabouts, or TM's & GZ's cellphone had a GPS recording there whereabouts.  We'll know after all evidences are out.

- after a couple of minutes, he says the man is following behind him again, she tells him to run but he says he isn't going to run and she says he can't run cause he's still out of breath (now its possible this could still fit into a possible narrative if Z went around the front of the buildings and came back through one of the gaps to reacquire TM, {...}

That's basically what I was replying above.

{...} but does it make any sense at all that TM ran to his dads house, is out of breath, but decides to start walking back towards the T but he's still so out of breath and breathing hard that he can't run again after a couple minute rest?  We are supposed to believe that, but the "obese" GZ is supposedly chasing after TM for a couple of minutes while on the NEN call and is talking plain as anything?   Is TM really going to walk back to the T away from his fathers house if hes that scared and out of breath that he's still huffing and puffing several minutes later?)

TM physical shape may come under light.  At this point, what we've seen is that he played football and that he is skinny.  not enough to judge how much tiring it would be for him to run.
In any case, without knowing the path he ran, it is impossible to judge how tired TM could be and if DeeDee lies on this exact statement.


- she then goes into the exchange of words and about how GZ's voice is deep, angry and out of breath (doesn't seem to me to match the tone of his voice and how he was talking to the dispatcher, but I guess he could have made his voice sound mean when talking to TM.  Not sure how he made it deeper).

Well you're talking about two different moment.  GZ's voice changes a lot in the NEN call and even during interviews.  In the NEN call GZ goes from assertive at the beginning, to scared between the 1:00 & 1:30 marks, to angry right before TM starts running, to absent, he drifts in resignation and suddenly get all excited when he asks to be called.  During interrogation, he sounds assertive when a recounts his story and has a very low voice when police points to inconsistencies and the contrast between the two is very sharp. 

In any case, what DeeDee hears that is not told by TM is probably the only thing that matters.  Hearsays are usually not accepted in court.  So, what matters is what she heard TM & GZ say to each other, what the ton of the voices, the background noise.  For example, she stated that she heard the phone on the grass before the line went dead.  It may sound like nothing but since the found the phone dead on the grass it gives some level of credence to her story, most knowing that she made her statements before the the first discovery release.  So, it may come down to GZ's story in which TM said "You have a problem?"  against DeeDee's in which he says "What are you following me for?". 

After she finishes her narrative, BDLR asks follow up questions trying to get details and it ends up getting very confusing about what happened when.  Overall, the part of the narrative I reference above from just before running to the two meeting and exchanging words, fits pretty well with the narrative Z tells.  The one discrepancy would be that TM tells her Z is following him again.  This part gets enhanced/modified a bit when BDLR tries to get more detail as in followup Dee Dee relays that TM says "he's right behind me" and begins to whisper, which is right before TM starts with the "why are you following me".   I think its safe to assume TM's whispering was to avoid being seen or found (depending on your narrative) and if he's whispering, its more likely than not that Z doesn't see him or know where he is.

Offline tchoupi

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #205 on: August 08, 2012, 02:44:28 PM »
His head injuries are not abrasions, but are cuts from being split open.

It's written abrasion in the discovery.

Offline IgnatiusJDonnelly

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #206 on: August 08, 2012, 02:53:40 PM »
Very good Tchoupi,
Police Chief Bill Lee seemed to think TM had started to walk home
when GZ reappeared at the T. TM then turned around to "mouth off"
as Lee put it. Do you think the timing  was fateful that night?
TM thought he'd lost GZ and left his hiding place just as GZ
came back to the T?

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #207 on: August 08, 2012, 02:53:47 PM »
It's written abrasion in the discovery.

And yet were called

" Scalp Lacerations: No sutures needed given well-approximated skin margins. Continue to clean with soap and water dally. We discussed the red flag symptoms that would warrant Imaging given the type of assault he sustained. Given the type of trauma, we discussed that it Is imperative he be seen with his Psychologist for evaluation."*

by, you know, a medical professional.

*Zimmerman medical report pdf.



Offline IgnatiusJDonnelly

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #208 on: August 08, 2012, 02:57:57 PM »
Certainly more lacerated looking than "road rash" looking.

Offline unitron

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Re: Witness #8 (DeeDee)
« Reply #209 on: August 08, 2012, 02:58:07 PM »
Very good Tchoupi,
Police Chief Bill Lee seemed to think TM had started to walk home
when GZ reappeared at the T. TM then turned around to "mouth off"
as Lee put it. Do you think the timing  was fateful that night?
TM thought he'd lost GZ and left his hiding place just as GZ
came back to the T?

If this were being written as a screenplay, the string of co-incidences necessary to make it work would probably be rejected as entirely too improbable.

 

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