Witness #8 (DeeDee)

[Lousy1]

Zimmerman has incentive to tell it whichever way keeps him out of jail.

Agreed - but that is not the same as an incentive to lie.

[JW]

But speaking of DeeDee, why does anyone think it took her as long as it did before she talked? It seems most people would have said something immediately if they were in the same position. I think even someone her age would have at least said something to a parent or friend. Seems quite odd to me.

[DebFrmHell]

Cite that he didn't walk on the other side of the street? Interesting. If George thought he had lost Martin, and he assumed Martin had left the complex...what was he doing for the next two minutes? We know he didn't go back to his truck.
Cite that it was light enough around the T to see? I'm pretty sure George and many others have noted how dark it was.

There is no evidence of course that Trayvon was or wasn't scared. That's the whole point. I find it beyond laughable that someone is going to state that Trayvon 'couldn't have been scared' because he apparently 'spoke first'. What do you suppose the claim would be if Trayvon hadn't spoken first? "See, he stayed quiet because was trying to ambush George!". In fact, people are -still- trying to make this claim even though Trayvon apparently gave up any and all surprise advantage by speaking first.

The twists and contortions you and the other GZ supporters go through to try and make George blameless in all of this through all his inconcistencies is really and truly extraordinary.

*The twists and contortions you and the other GZ supporters go through to try and make George blameless in all of this through all his inconsistencies is really and truly extraordinary.*

As are yours when there is considerable evidence that supports GZ defending himself.  You came to a site that is run by a defense lawyer.  Seriously, what did you expect? 

I agree that there are inconsistencies in his statements but I also note that he had injuries to his head and was in a state of duress.

I have also been on "the other side of the table" when it comes to interrogations by the police.  It is not pleasant.  It is not a chat.  I cannot speak for GZ, but I can tell you that I did kick in with a little "self-preservation."  Unlike him, when I got to that point, I requested a lawyer and thus ended the interview. 

That he continued to cooperate with investigators tells me that he firmly believes that he was defending himself in that altercation.  I think he comes across as genuine in his reenactment.  He is trying to answer every question posed to him to the best of his ability.

[JW]

That reminds me of something else. Why would DeeDee talk to Crump before anyone else? Did she feel the need for legal council before she spoke? Too many oddities for her to be believeable.

[DebFrmHell]

But speaking of DeeDee, why does anyone think it took her as long as it did before she talked? It seems most people would have said something immediately if they were in the same position. I think even someone her age would have at least said something to a parent or friend. Seems quite odd to me.

I think she had discussed this with her family.  Her mother had to take her to an ER the night of TM's memorial.  She said it was because of high blood pressure but I think that might be an anxiety attack.  I firmly believe that a 16yr old would discuss this with friends, too. 

I also think that Tracy Martin was well aware of her conversations with Trayvon also.  When the SPD asked him for access to the phone records, he declined and told them he would check with his lawyer.  IIRC, that forced the SPD into getting a search warrant.  Crump said he had to find her and that is why it took time.  I think that is just BS because he needed time to coach her.   His records have been out on the internet for months now so I would think that someone has deciphered the calls and texts by now.  I just haven't bothered to look.

I just think she is trying to protect her friend, Trayvon.  I also think there is much more to her sanitized version of what she actually heard and things that TM might have said prior to the verbal confrontation with GZ.  I don't think it would be that favorable to TM for that very reason.

She said he lowered his voice.  I think that he came back towards the "T" and slipped into hiding.  He said he wasn't going to run after he had already run and apparently got close to Brandy Greens TH.  She then said "a couple of minutes went by" and BdlR made no effort to continue into that statement.  She said he was walking back.  BdlR didn't question her further on that either. 

All IMO, of course.

[JW]

I agree. DeeDee's story has been "tailored" to favor the prosecution. While it does match certain events it really conflicts or is missing other key elements of the events that night. Even taken at face value I don't think it is that damaging to George. While her story may give insight into Trayvon's state of mind it doesn't really show anything about George's state of mind. At best her story shows how each one misunderstood the intentions of the other and had reason to suspect the other.

[dragon ash]

However since George realizes he may be contradicted but other witnesses and evidence he has instead a motive to endeavor to tell the truth.

It is in Zimmerman's self interest to lie?

Worried about the other witnesses? Shouldn't he first be worried about contradicting himself? Repeatedly?

The earwitnesses are only shadows on the wall, giving us glimpses. George was there. His own contradictions are going to hurt far, far more than anyone else, precisely because he has the biggest motive of anyone to lie if he thinks it keeps him out of jail.

[JW]

Worried about the other witnesses? Shouldn't he first be worried about contradicting himself? Repeatedly?

The earwitnesses are only shadows on the wall, giving us glimpses. George was there. His own contradictions are going to hurt far, far more than anyone else, precisely because he has the biggest motive of anyone to lie if he thinks it keeps him out of jail.

What does that have to do with Witness #8?

[AghastInFL]

And what, pray tell, explains *George's* presence there, two minutes after losing Martin? Why does Martin's mere presence there automatically make him the aggressor?
 Interesting. George claims that he *didn't* go back to his truck and instead 'just hung around the area', as you put it, because he was scared. George does exactly what you insist a person wouldn't do. Trayvon wasn't scared, so he stayed put, George was scared so he scared put?
I agree re George's phone call - which was NOT a 911 call, btw - so isn't it odd that in his walkthrough *the very next day*, George piles on inconsistency after inconsistency. I wonder why that is?

You think DeeDee has a motive to lie, but George doesn't?

George had one reason to stay where he was scared or not: the imminent arrival of the police which he himself had called to the scene. Irregardless NEN or 911 he had been assured the SPD were on their way to the scene.

Re: perceived inconsistency; George had suffered an act of aggression... regurgitating minutia verbatim to your satisfaction was not his primary concern.

[JW]

DeeDee's testimony is inconsistent with evidence but bring it up and some people get upset. I expect there to be conflicts in testimony. It is stronger if it is supported by something or someone else. That is what makes witness #6 a strong witness. His testimony is backed up and supported by other witnesses. DeeDee on the other hand isn't really supported by anyone.

[dragon ash]

George had one reason to stay where he was scared or not: the imminent arrival of the police which he himself had called to the scene. Irregardless NEN or 911 he had been assured the SPD were on their way to the scene.

But they weren't called to the scene, they were just called to the complex. George just told them to call them when they got to the complex, remember? The cops don't know where the scene is. As it happened, others had already called 911, but George didn't know that.

Re: perceived inconsistency; George had suffered an act of aggression... regurgitating minutia verbatim to your satisfaction was not his primary concern.

Well...he had been involved in a fight and had just shot somebody. I'll grant that.
But anyway, this is the Witness #8 thread, so I'll stop the George comments here and will post in the George as a Witness thread.

[Lousy1]

But they weren't called to the scene, they were just called to the complex. George just told them to call them when they got to the complex, remember? The cops don't know where the scene is. As it happened, others had already called 911, but George didn't know that.

Witness #6 told the combatants he was a calling 911. Zimmerman mentioned John's comment in his walk through.

BTW Agast's reference was about waiting two minutes for the NEN call investigator to arrive. You seem to have some reason to insist that Zimmerman should have moved directly to his truck.

Perhaps your getting your conflations confused?

[JW]

Witness #6 told the combatants he was a calling 911. Zimmerman mentioned John's comment in his walk through.

BTW Agast's reference was about waiting two minutes for the NEN call investigator to arrive. You seem to have some reason to insist that Zimmerman should have moved directly to his truck.

Perhaps your getting your conflations confused?

I don't get that. Some people expect George to go directly to his truck yet Trayvon not going home is no problem. I wonder why Trayvon didn't tell DeeDee he was going back to the "T"?

[dragon ash]

Arrghh - stop asking George questions in this thread 

I don't mind George not going directly to his truck except when people believe that Martin 'had to be the aggressor' because him and George ended up meeting each other. Neither has any obligation to do anything or go anywhere.

I will say, that for the entire incident, Martin has only been going in the direction of his home - he's moving in the one direction he would need to go in. George says he 'circled' his truck, but it's unclear if the timeline George gives allows for this.

George, on the other hand, followed Martin first in his car then on foot for over a quarter of a mile. The jury will make of that what they will.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Martin had gone home, or if George had gone back to the truck, the whole thing never happens. If George just stays in his truck, the whole thing never happens. Unfortunately (or not, depending on your point of view), the law does not place any greater responsibility on someone just because they happen to be carrying a gun.

Re: Witness #6 told the combatants he was a calling 911, when a bystander asked George right after the shooting if he should call 911, George's response was, 'no I already called them'. Not, 'someone already called them'.

[cboldt]

Unfortunately (or not, depending on your point of view), the law does not place any greater responsibility on someone just because they happen to be carrying a gun.

Are you sure of that?  You seem sure of that.