Witness #8 (DeeDee)

[unitron]

Don't pretend you're objective.

I try to be.  I may not always succeed, but it's not because I want either one of them to be "in the wrong", I just want to figure out what happened, and I have trouble with things that don't seem to add up or make sense.  Maybe I lack the intelligence for them to.

 Just because you can dispute Trayvonites and their conspiracy theories does not count.

If you really think I'm all pro-Martin and anti-Zimmerman, post a bunch of stuff about George that's either flat-out wrong or just plain ridiculous, and see how I react.

"that Martin's knuckles are undamaged"

Trayvon had a 1/4 inch cut on the outside of his ring finger between his upper knuckles.  The exact kind of injury one would get for punching something or someone....very hard.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

pg 7

It's not a cut, it's an abrasion, and it's not on the knuckle.

Of course I'm usually pointing this out to someone who has insisted that all of his knuckles were busted open and bleeding.  In other words, an error as great as the anti-Zimmerman fanatics' insistance that his father was a Florida Supreme Court judge with the governor in his pocket.

[spectator]

I think the problem is we've exhausted the possibilities of the evidence released so far and are just being silly now. We need some new evidence to talk about.

I know, it would be nice to spot something big that's been overlooked.
 
Anyhow if were to believe DeeDee's account...  she makes a pretty big claim when hearing GZ breathing hard, George's brisk walk or jog was very brief and he had a good rest by the time he hangs up, he sounds just fine when he ends it with "thanks".

It must have been a good lung pumper after that for her to hear it in the background.

I wonder if the 2 running shadows statement helped that along.

If something like that actually happened imagine George's luck the evidence trail migrated back to the "T."

The totality of her comments are too convenient to be Believed.

[annoyedbeyond]

It's not a cut, it's an abrasion, and it's not on the knuckle.

Of course I'm usually pointing this out to someone who has insisted that all of his knuckles were busted open and bleeding.  In other words, an error as great as the anti-Zimmerman fanatics' insistance that his father was a Florida Supreme Court judge with the governor in his pocket.

It's an abrasion, and it's between the top two knuckles. Exactly where you'd expect to find an injury if you punched someone hard and connected with a hard surface (like a skull).

When you stop patting yourself on the back for being so objective, make a fist and look at it.

[unitron]

It's an abrasion, and it's between the top two knuckles. Exactly where you'd expect to find an injury if you punched someone hard and connected with a hard surface (like a skull).

I'd expect an abrasion to come from sliding relative to a rough surface, like sandpaper, or a sidewalk.  In other words, from the skin having been abraded.

When you stop patting yourself on the back for being so objective, make a fist and look at it.

I did, actually, and it looks like the middle finger would be the one to make the greatest contact if I punched someone in the nose, not the ring finger.


But let me see if I have this straight.

If someone says Martin's finger was cut, and I say, no, it was abraded, that's secret code for "he never punched Zimmerman" instead of it just being me pointing out one of the many factual errors about this case that continue to be made?

Even though I've never, anywhere, in my entire life expressed an opinion about various types of injuries to a hand proving or disproving that the hand had been used to punch someone, so that the most reasonable interpretation of my saying he had an abrasion is that, having seen the autopsy, I believe he had an abrasion?

I continue to be amazed at how both sides (of those who have taken sides) in this case can find anti-whichever-one-is-their-guy bias in almost anything and everything in a manner that rivals the ability of those in the story to have seen the emperor's new clothes.

[leftwig]

I'd suspect Martin's injury to his knuckle wasn't the result of hitting GZ in the face or head.  Punching someone in the face doesn't cause skin injuries to the hand doing the hitting unless he caught some teeth.  The most likely injury from punching someone would be a break from not doing it properly, but the face is fleshy and not prone to leave any marks on an opponents hands and I don't think TM exclusively used his hands throughout the event.

I think TM threw a variety of strikes, punches and elbows.  I'd say probably only a few landed squarely enough to cause much damage, but that doesn't mean he didn't throw quite a few.  They key issues to GZ's injuries and how he might have felt defenseless would be if the first punch was indeed the one that broke his nose and whether the head injuries were from being pounded into the sidewalk.  I see no evidence to contradict that the first punch was the one to break his nose and the injuries to the back of his head clearly seem to be the result of something hard contacting it.  His head injuries are not abrasions, but are cuts from being split open as well as a substantial knot on the side of his head.   The police in their report said that they injuries were moderately consistent with someone fearing for their life, so the nature and depth of GZ's injuries don't seem to be an issue for his use of deadly force.

Not sure what this has to do with Dee Dee as she isn't going to be testifying to anything about the fight.

[nomatter_nevermind]

The last time I suggested an off-topic discussion be moved to another thread, the response included name-calling.

A few days later, the moderator deleted the off-topic comments.

Thanks to Jack203 for pointing out the autopsy drawing.

[DebFrmHell]

I'd suspect Martin's injury to his knuckle wasn't the result of hitting GZ in the face or head.  Punching someone in the face doesn't cause skin injuries to the hand doing the hitting unless he caught some teeth.  The most likely injury from punching someone would be a break from not doing it properly, but the face is fleshy and not prone to leave any marks on an opponents hands and I don't think TM exclusively used his hands throughout the event.

I think TM threw a variety of strikes, punches and elbows.  I'd say probably only a few landed squarely enough to cause much damage, but that doesn't mean he didn't throw quite a few.  They key issues to GZ's injuries and how he might have felt defenseless would be if the first punch was indeed the one that broke his nose and whether the head injuries were from being pounded into the sidewalk.  I see no evidence to contradict that the first punch was the one to break his nose and the injuries to the back of his head clearly seem to be the result of something hard contacting it.  His head injuries are not abrasions, but are cuts from being split open as well as a substantial knot on the side of his head.   The police in their report said that they injuries were moderately consistent with someone fearing for their life, so the nature and depth of GZ's injuries don't seem to be an issue for his use of deadly force.

Not sure what this has to do with Dee Dee as she isn't going to be testifying to anything about the fight.

If they choose to call her, there are a couple of references to a fight in her statements.  She started to say  something that "Trayon bump-Trayvon was bumped"  She said that she heard "pushing noises" and the "Get Off Get Off."

Kind of paraphrasing as I have to leave for work.  Memory and all.

[whitecap333]

Anyone see Hannity's interview of Daryl Parks, Crump's partner the other night?  Hannity pressed him pretty hard on just how everything "went down" inside the complex that evening.  Park's didn't breath a hint of Dee Dee.  Kind of surprising, since they created such a media sensation with her a while back.  Makes me wonder if they've decided that, on balance, they'll be better off without her.  Something else that surprised me was Park's concession that Martin was indeed on top of Zimmerman when he was shot, saying he "should have been" since Zimmerman was armed.  I surmise we are invited to conclude that Martin was trying to disarm Zimmerman all the while, a la Dooley.  Going to be hard to explain how Zimmerman got those lacerations on the back of his noggin, on flat concrete, on this theory.

I always got abrasions on or near my knuckles only when striking someone in the teeth.  I think swelling to Zimmerman's lips was noted.

[nomatter_nevermind]

Anyone see Hannity's interview of Daryl Parks, Crump's partner the other night?

It was discussed earlier.

[TalkLeft]

Please keep comments here to Dee Dee's statements and Dee Dee as a witness. Thanks.

[whitecap333]

Is Park's omission of Dee Dee from his narrative of events on topic?   That wasn't discussed in the media thread.

[TalkLeft]

Is Park's omission of Dee Dee from his narrative of events on topic?   That wasn't discussed in the media thread.

It would be more appropriate as a new thread in the Martin Family and Team Crump section, since it is about what a lawyer in Crump's office said.

[annoyedbeyond]

I'd suspect Martin's injury to his knuckle wasn't the result of hitting GZ in the face or head.  Punching someone in the face doesn't cause skin injuries to the hand doing the hitting unless he caught some teeth.  The most likely injury from punching someone would be a break from not doing it properly, but the face is fleshy and not prone to leave any marks on an opponents hands and I don't think TM exclusively used his hands throughout the event.

I think TM threw a variety of strikes, punches and elbows.  I'd say probably only a few landed squarely enough to cause much damage, but that doesn't mean he didn't throw quite a few.  They key issues to GZ's injuries and how he might have felt defenseless would be if the first punch was indeed the one that broke his nose and whether the head injuries were from being pounded into the sidewalk.  I see no evidence to contradict that the first punch was the one to break his nose and the injuries to the back of his head clearly seem to be the result of something hard contacting it.  His head injuries are not abrasions, but are cuts from being split open as well as a substantial knot on the side of his head.   The police in their report said that they injuries were moderately consistent with someone fearing for their life, so the nature and depth of GZ's injuries don't seem to be an issue for his use of deadly force.

Not sure what this has to do with Dee Dee as she isn't going to be testifying to anything about the fight.

Actually you're quite wrong on the issue of hand damage from faces. Faces are fairly thin skin laid over solid skull. It's a good way to break a hand.

[nomatter_nevermind]

I spot-checked the JusticeQuest transcript of Dee Dee's SAO interview. It has the obvious error I described here, and I think another major error right after that.

The first is inexcusable. Even de la Rionda seemed to realize that 'right by his *ss' didn't make sense in context, and asked Dee Dee if that's what she meant. She said 'no', and explained what she did mean. A transcriber has to be in a trance to miss that.

Dee Dee repeated that part of the story, substituting 'right by his father's house', so it was clear that what she said first was 'right by his dad's.'

The first time I listened I missed the 'd' sounds also, but they aren't really hard to hear. It just takes attention.

The next part is 8:47-49.

Transcribed by JusticeQuest.

he ru’, he go’ keep ru’ ’til hi’ dad house.

I don't usually drop consonants when transcribing, but this time I'll do it so the differences will all be substance, not style.

Tell 'im keep runnin', keep running to his daddy's house.

Yes, I think Dee Dee drops the 'g' from the first 'running' and not the second. I don't care. I think fussing about such things is a time-wasting distraction, which is why I normally don't.

This part of the transcript, which I think is clearly inaccurate, is letter for letter the same as the one I criticized on another thread. Its author is one Mike McDaniel, a person clearly biased against Dee Dee. Is JusticeQuest using his transcript?

[unitron]

Anyone see Hannity's interview of Daryl Parks, Crump's partner the other night?  Hannity pressed him pretty hard on just how everything "went down" inside the complex that evening.  Park's didn't breath a hint of Dee Dee.  Kind of surprising, since they created such a media sensation with her a while back.  Makes me wonder if they've decided that, on balance, they'll be better off without her.  Something else that surprised me was Park's concession that Martin was indeed on top of Zimmerman when he was shot, saying he "should have been" since Zimmerman was armed.  I surmise we are invited to conclude that Martin was trying to disarm Zimmerman all the while, a la Dooley.  Going to be hard to explain how Zimmerman got those lacerations on the back of his noggin, on flat concrete, on this theory.

I always got abrasions on or near my knuckles only when striking someone in the teeth.  I think swelling to Zimmerman's lips was noted.

Unless their teeth were made of sandpaper, I'd think it more likely that they would have cut your skin rather than abraded it.