Author Topic: How far did SPD get into their investigation?  (Read 47723 times)

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Offline willisnewton

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2012, 08:16:11 PM »
"The disparity of injury is evidence of an ambush style attack" 

Fair enough, but it's speculative / circumstantial at best.  I personally believe that TM punched GZ in the face and that he was on top of him in John's backyard.  I just don't think GZ is a credible person, so I look for evidence of how the fight started, and find his story wanting. 

One can also speculate and build a circumstantial case that GZ left the innocent path to(wards) his vehicle in an effort to detain the teen.  One story is as good as another, except that Trayvon Martin didn't live to tell his side, and GZ's version of other events is fraught with contradictions and inconsistencies thus throwing suspicion on anything he says, to say nothing of his behavior in regards to his hidden money and hidden passport.   

The Sanford PD never found anything other than GZ's statements to say that this TM was the aggressor up by the T while GZ reached for his cell phone, etc.  In fact, they found seemingly contradictory or inconsistent statements such as he fell backwards to the ground vs. he stumbled forward past TM's position for around 50 feet or so and never seems to have grappled with the teen at all yet somehow they all drop several objects about.  In every telling save one, GZ seems to claim he was sucker punched to the ground where he stood more or less.  The distance from the T to John's back yard will be established by the total station map we are liley to see monday, but IMO it's around 50 feet and that's a fair distance to leave out of a story given all that could happen as the two may have traveled it.  GZ gives an account during the walk thru but not until that time does he ever mention any such travel by the two of them. 

If you say a jury might buy that the disparity of injuries is evidence of an ambush, I'll concede the point, but SPD never seems to have found any witnesses that it happened that way, and plenty of material that suggested that GZ is not a credible person.  They also didn't seem to think his injuries matched his story.   


Offline Lousy1

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2012, 09:17:19 PM »
"The disparity of injury is evidence of an ambush style attack" 

One can also speculate and build a circumstantial case that GZ left the innocent path to(wards) his vehicle in an effort to detain the teen.  One story is as good as another, except that Trayvon Martin didn't live to tell his side, and GZ's version of other events is fraught with contradictions and inconsistencies thus throwing suspicion on anything he says, to say nothing of his behavior in regards to his hidden money and hidden passport.   


You can speculate to your hearts desire. You just can't convict on it.

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The Sanford PD never found anything other than GZ's statements to say that this TM was the aggressor up by the T while GZ reached for his cell phone, etc

Irrelevant . Significantly, the Sanford police admits that they have no evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor.

Po

Offline Smellwood

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2012, 10:59:33 PM »
I have a question about the eventual trial. If serino testifies, which I assume he pretty much has to, can O'Mara use his public statements about GZ's version of events being the best evidence and the reasons he gave at the time for not arresting him? Since he said that three days after he filled out the capias request could it be used to question his credibility?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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When The Martins Knew
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2012, 12:21:21 AM »
The Martins didn't know until they got the cell phone bill,

Do you have evidence for that?

This was discussed on the blog.

The SPD asked Tracy Martin for access to the phone records on March 5 (p. 17).

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2012, 02:28:13 AM »
  What he said immediately after that is very telling. 

Do you mean it changed your mind about something? Or do you mean it should convince others of what you already believed?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2012, 02:39:01 AM »
  What if they had more time?

I thought the SPD handed the file to the State's Attorney's Office when they decided their investigation was complete. Were they under a time constraint?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2012, 04:02:21 AM »
One piece of evidence I found interesting was the portion of the Stress Analysis video where GZ was talking with Singleton and he asked her if she ever had to shoot someone.  She said no.  What he said immediately after that is very telling.

2/27V, 5:09-43, 6:23:46-6:24:21:
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Zimmerman: Have you ever had to shoot anybody?

Singleton: No.

Zimmerman: Good for you.

You're probably stern enough to get the point.

Singleton: I'm sorry?

Zimmerman: You're probably stern enough for it to get the point. You got that -

Singleton: Hmm.

Zimmerman: - authoritative, commanding presence.

Singleton: [Unintelligible] geared up.

Zimmerman: I [unintelligible] you without it. I wouldn't question your authority.

Transcribed by me. Sorry I couldn't do a better job.

I don't agree that it's 'telling.' It's just more fuel for speculation.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The SPD And The Martins
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2012, 04:43:30 AM »
The Martins didn't know until they got the cell phone bill

That's not what Crump said at his March 20 presser.
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Mr. Martin, on Sunday evening, was working with his cell phone account, trying to figure out Trayvon's password. And he looked on it, and he saw who the last person was that Trayvon Martin talked to while he was alive.

Sunday would be March 18. The SPD investigation ended March 13.

You were right about that. Crump claimed the Martins learned about Dee Dee after the SPD investigation was concluded.

The fact remains, the SPD worked on the phone from the beginning. On March 5 they asked for Tracy Martin's cooperation, and were refused.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2012, 11:26:00 AM »
I totally agree with you -- and I think this fits into the "GZ was trying to detain TM" scenario.

But why conclude that Zimmerman commanded Martin to do anything? If that was his goal he could have done it earlier.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2012, 02:06:17 PM »
One piece of evidence I found interesting was the portion of the Stress Analysis video where GZ was talking with Singleton and he asked her if she ever had to shoot someone.  She said no.  What he said immediately after that is very telling.  (I don't have a transcript of that or I would post it but it's worth going back and listening to.)

Your conclusion is unsupported speculation as to Zimmerman's though processes. Certainly not evidence.  You may think it's telling, I doubt anyone other than those who are looking to support their theory GZ committed a crime would agree with you.

It's also off-topic. The topic is what the SFD did or did not do, and what the FDLE did or did not do.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2012, 02:11:21 PM »
"The disparity of injury is evidence of an ambush style attack" 

Fair enough, but it's speculative / circumstantial at best.  I personally believe that TM punched GZ in the face and that he was on top of him in John's backyard.  I just don't think GZ is a credible person, so I look for evidence of how the fight started, and find his story wanting. 

Willis, the thread (which you started) is about what the police did and didn't do in their investigation. Do not use it as a place to advance your personal theory about guilt. You can debate specific evidence on threads about the evidence.

Offline Jujube

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2012, 02:22:04 PM »
It's also off-topic. The topic is what the SFD did or did not do, and what the FDLE did or did not do.

This tape was made on 2/27 at the Voice Stress Analysis.  Wasn't that done by the SFD, not the FDLE?  And wouldn't this tend to support the Prosecution's potential theory? 

Considering it was taped, wouldn't it be evidence?  (I dunno because I'm not a lawyer or in LE.)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 02:26:08 PM by Jujube »

Offline unitron

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2012, 03:27:14 PM »
The disparity of injury is evidence of an ambush style attack...

It's evidence that Zimmerman didn't put up much of a defense prior to pulling his gun, but it doesn't prove one way or the other why he didn't put up much of a defense.

Maybe he got taken by surprise, maybe he's not particulary skilled or experienced at fighting.

We don't know.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2012, 03:30:12 PM »
Fortunately it is part of a body of evidence about the fight.


 

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