Author Topic: How far did SPD get into their investigation?  (Read 41744 times)

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Offline unitron

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #180 on: July 19, 2012, 06:41:56 PM »
Facing east seems to match up well if you combine his account in the walk-thru and the NEN call assuming he leaves the clubhouse right around the time the call connects.  He never mentions being parked at the clubhouse on the NEN, so I think that makes the most sense.

I'm familiar with the theory done of the lighting seen in the various clubhouse videos.  I can't say what they suggest is impossible, but I found it to be inconclusive.  I doubt any theory gets put forth from the prosecution based on those videos.

Like I said, I haven't seen any indication that the prosecution intends to do anything with the clubhouse videos.

Of course, the prosecution isn't trying to find out what actually happened, they're trying to get a conviction, and the defense isn't trying to find out what really happened, they're trying to get a dismissal, or, failing that, an acquittal.

Offline willisnewton

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #181 on: July 21, 2012, 07:19:29 PM »
This forum needs a moderator to combat bias in any form.  And jearalyn has put in the work and claims the right and that's fine by me. 

But IMO no one can make GZ's statements jibe with either the idea that he reached a human (Sean the dispatcher) while at the clubhouse parking lot, or when he was already all the way down TTL parked by the cut thru.  He's contradicted himself by making competing claims of where he was when TM passed him, hand in waistband, and therefor whatever version you choose to believe comes with a contradictory account given to SPD.    Also IMO NEITHER position can be reliably aligned with the NE call recording. 

leftwig tries to suggest that he moved during the call, and that's all fine and good but he doesn't say when, exactly.  I'd like to know if he means before or after GZ says "Now he's staring at me," some 48 seconds into the call.  Because it takes some time to get from the clubhouse parking lot to the cut thru parking position GZ claims - 30 seconds or so in the re-eneactment, and maybe GZ could do it faster but at any rate backing up from "now he's staring at me" point puts the move in the first sentences of the call, before Sean even gets to ask his very first question, "is he white, black or hispanic?"

And of course this idea of a move at that time means GZ is wrong/confused when he repeatedly tells investigators he is "by the clubhouse" when he's finally played the recording, and means GZ meant "no" when he said "yeah" when asked on the evening "is he near the clubhouse now?/yeah now he's coming towards me."  George hasn't started giving driving directions yet, and isn't seemingly confused or distracted as far as I can tell.  He's just started his call and is giving the basics as asked.  And he certainly was never directed to move where he could see the teen in the first 20-30 seconds of the call. 

I've been criticized and had posts deleted for length, but unless I provide supporting text people continue to rely on generalized memory and incomplete arguments to continue thinking in a biased manner, IMO.
Quote

Zimmerman:
Weve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and theres a real suspicious guy. Its Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
This guy looks like hes up to no good or hes on drugs or something. Its raining and hes just walking around looking about. [00:25]
NE dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman:
He looks black.
NE dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. Hes here now hes just staring. [00:42]
NE dispatcher:
Hes just walking around the area, the houses? OK.
Zimmerman:
Now hes staring at me. [00:48]
NE dispatcher:
OK, you said thats 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Zimmerman:
Thats the clubhouse.
NE dispatcher:
Hes near the clubhouse now?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, now hes coming toward me. Hes got his hands in his waist band.
And hes a black male.[1:03]
This thread is about what SPD's investigation established.  I contend IMO they found the pattern of false statements GZ employed to obscure and omit the way he traveled from the clubhouse area to the cut thru area.  If people don't agree that's fine, but don't pretend you have a more coherent theory posited here just yet, because as a practical matter I've not seen it. 

George may not remember the name of Twin Trees Lane but he's not lost, and he marked a position on the map (and quickly crossed it out when he comes to the next section of the story) that IMO resolves contradictions and inconsistencies and establishes the pattern of his lies - when in doubt, leave it out.  He seems quite afraid of admitting the concept of being in a moving car behind the teen where both are in motion.  AFAIK there is nothing specifically wrong with his doing it, it's not a crime in and of itself but he's jeopardized his credibility for minimal gain, another pattern I see him doing. 

If you were shown a map of your own neighborhood, could you tell the difference between the corner and the middle of a street?  IMO George isn't confused or lost, he's simply pushing a false narrative.  Perhaps it's his only lie, but there it is. 

Offline Lousy1

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #182 on: July 21, 2012, 07:50:36 PM »
You argument falls on death ears because you postulate complex solutions to a simple problem.

In order to conclude that GZ was purposely attempting to mislead one must believe that he
a.  Thought that the issues he was misstating would be detrimental to him. ( Why else bother)
b.  Would have the time to and wit to construct these fabrications.

On the other hand,
to postulate Zimmerman  attempted to construct events to the best of his ability we would need to believe that he
c. Is human.
d. Is not adept at remembering the timing and sequence of events.

Unless you can prove A&B through some witness with overriding insight into GZ's mind I'm going with the impressions I have obtained via hours of direct observation of GZ.

That would be C & D

When I see statements like

Quote
I contend IMO they found the pattern of false statements GZ employed to obscure and omit the way he traveled from the clubhouse area to the cut thru area.

I just ignore the rest of the post.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 07:56:14 PM by Lousy1 »

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #183 on: July 21, 2012, 11:18:43 PM »
Willis, there was no "pattern of false statements."

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #184 on: July 23, 2012, 08:55:40 AM »
And Martin had multiple chances to confront George...but ran away?

ensuring Martin had enough time to close the distance and complete the devastating sucker-punch, which was only strong enough to cause George to stumble forward?

I believe the testimony was backwards.

Offline leftwig

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #185 on: July 23, 2012, 09:03:35 AM »
And Martin had multiple chances to confront George...but ran away?

Was Martin's master plan to entice George out of his car by running away, certain in the knowledge that George would chase after him and that Martin would be able to stay out of sight long enough to sneak up behind George and to make sure the ambush succeeded he'd talk to George, giving George time to turn around, but no worry because Martin knew George would then look down for his phone, ensuring Martin had enough time to close the distance and complete the devastating sucker-punch, which was only strong enough to cause George to stumble forward?

I have no idea what Martins plan was, but clearly his plan wasn't to run home and avoid a confrontation as he had lost George and was right by his house.  I doubt TM really planned anything as he walked back towards the T, but that wasn't the point being addressed.  The theory was put forth that George was being confrontational that night, yet it seems like his actions were anything but that.  I've yet to see any evidence that Z confronted TM.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #186 on: July 23, 2012, 09:06:48 AM »
I have no idea what Martins plan was, but clearly his plan wasn't to run home and avoid a confrontation as he had lost George and was right by his house.  I doubt TM really planned anything as he walked back towards the T, but that wasn't the point being addressed.  The theory was put forth that George was being confrontational that night, yet it seems like his actions were anything but that.  I've yet to see any evidence that Z confronted TM.

Clearly, if his plan was to run home and avoid confrontation, he'd have...you know, run home and avoided confrontation, as you say--he was right by the house.


Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #187 on: July 23, 2012, 10:20:13 AM »
You mean besides George's statement that he carried the gun with him at all times except at work, and the fact that he was the head of the Neighborhood Watch? You mean besides that evidence?

What part of 'sh*t he's running (sound of George exiting car & running after...sorry, 'going in the same direction' as Martin' do you disagree with?

Suppose George had caught up with Martin near the T. What do you think George planned on doing?

Suppose? Really? Given that the operator had said to keep an eye on him and he said "okay", it's reasonable to infer he planned to do nothing other than keep an eye on him.

I mean hell...suppose George had caught up to Martin near the T. What do you think Martin planned on doing? Seriously--he could've just ducked into the back door of Brandi' place. He didn't. What did he plan?

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: How far did SPD get into their investigation?
« Reply #188 on: July 23, 2012, 01:32:12 PM »
this thread has gone far off topic and into discussions of irrelevant and prejudicial topics. It's being locked. I will further clean it later when I have time.

 

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