Author Topic: George as a Witness  (Read 215178 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lousy1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4058
  • Rate Post +6/-30
  • Fetch my hammer
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2012, 02:36:02 PM »
The guy who just shot somebody and is looking to not be sent to jail for it might not always make statements upon which the athorities can rely.

Neither might a hostile ,post event, spectator intent on mangling facts to paint a false picture. The difference is that if GZ is innocent it is in his interest to tell the truth to the best of his ability.

However I don't remember Zimmerman commenting on the keys or truck. Why would it dispute any important  evidence in the case? does it place him in pursuit of Trayvon?

Offline leftwig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2012, 02:41:55 PM »
I think we may have been missing a really important piece of evidence, and I may have been wrong about something.

This whole time we've been assuming George never went back to his truck, and instead spent the two minutes between the end of his call and the start of the confrontation.

I think this is incorrect. I think George went back to his truck, and then went back out looking for Martin.

My evidence: At 02:08 when George says "He's running", he gets out of his car and you hear the door chime. That's the 'hey, dummy, you've forgotten your keys' - and the chime only ends when the door is shut. Second is 03:22 of his NEN call: When he tells the dispatcher directions to his truck, he says (as the NEN dispatcher is talking over him), "the keys are in the truck".


But we know from the evidence that George's keys with small flashlight were found near the T.


I think George went back to his truck to turn the engine off and retrieve the small flashlight on the keychain since his big flashlight wasn't working. He then went back to look for Martin.


George never mentions going back to his truck.


Can anyone find a fault in any of the above?

I wouldn't rule it out as impossible.  Obviously he would have had to go back to get his keys after the call ended because we don't hear the door chime again the rest of the call which would occur as soon as he opened the car door again.  Of course this would probably put the theory to rest that he was chasing down Martin if this were true.

The only way I could see this fitting into the call and story about going to get the address would be if he got out to try and see where Martin ran, waited at the T as he talked to the dispatcher and started walking back and was near his truck when the call ended.  He gets to his car and realizes he doesn't have an address and decides to walk to RVC at that point to get the address.  He walks to RVC and on his way back, TM comes to greet him.

Offline Lousy1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4058
  • Rate Post +6/-30
  • Fetch my hammer
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2012, 02:49:17 PM »
Or,as mentioned,  perhaps the light shot off automatically in a few seconds so the alarm was not due his keys.

If GZ remembers going back to his truck after the call ended with (Z at the T), then walking back 40 ft before resuming his trip  towards Retreat View Circle implies nothing.

It actually accounts for some of the time between the  end of the call and Martins assault of Zimmerman  at the T.

I doubt he would purposely exclude it.

Offline dragon ash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
  • Rate Post +0/-0
  • Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2012, 02:55:34 PM »
I doubt he would purposely exclude it.
Really? You think it just slipped his mind?

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2012, 02:56:27 PM »
My evidence: At 02:08 when George says "He's running", he gets out of his car and you hear the door chime. That's the 'hey, dummy, you've forgotten your keys' - and the chime only ends when the door is shut.

According to the Ridgeline owner's manual (http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/om/JC0707/JC0707MAINIXA.pdf):

Quote
You will hear a reminder beeper if you leave the key in the ignition switch in the LOCK (0) or the ACCESSORY (I) position and open the driverís door. Remove the key to turn off the beeper.

but,

Quote
Turning the dial to the [headlights on] position turns on the headlights. If you leave the lights on and remove the key from the ignition switch, you will hear a reminder chime when you open the driverís door.

The sound seemed to obviously be a chime, not a beeper.

Also, FYI:
Quote
The automatic lighting off feature turns off the headlights, all other exterior lights, and the instrument panel lights within 15 seconds of removing the key from the ignition switch and closing the driverís door.

(On the forum, I don't know how put a hyperlink without putting in the whole address.)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 03:05:33 PM by MJW »

Offline Redbrow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2012, 03:03:04 PM »
I think we may have been missing a really important piece of evidence, and I may have been wrong about something.

This whole time we've been assuming George never went back to his truck, and instead spent the two minutes between the end of his call and the start of the confrontation.

I think this is incorrect. I think George went back to his truck, and then went back out looking for Martin.

My evidence: At 02:08 when George says "He's running", he gets out of his car and you hear the door chime. That's the 'hey, dummy, you've forgotten your keys' - and the chime only ends when the door is shut. Second is 03:22 of his NEN call: When he tells the dispatcher directions to his truck, he says (as the NEN dispatcher is talking over him), "the keys are in the truck".


But we know from the evidence that George's keys with small flashlight were found near the T.


I think George went back to his truck to turn the engine off and retrieve the small flashlight on the keychain since his big flashlight wasn't working. He then went back to look for Martin.


George never mentions going back to his truck.


Can anyone find a fault in any of the above?

He does not say "the keys are in the truck".

Offline Lousy1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4058
  • Rate Post +6/-30
  • Fetch my hammer
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2012, 03:03:22 PM »
Really? You think it just slipped his mind?

I didn't say that - do you think he lied?

Offline dragon ash

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
  • Rate Post +0/-0
  • Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2012, 04:51:22 PM »
He does not say "the keys are in the truck".
I think the exact words are, "The keys are in it".

It seems reasonably clear, but I'm sure audio experts would be able to clean it up.

It seems like he gets out of the car awfully fast - would he think and act quickly enough to put the dial to headlights on, then get out of the truck?

Where's Lee when we need him?



Offline RWright

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2012, 05:06:51 PM »
I think the exact words are, "The keys are in it".

It seems reasonably clear, but I'm sure audio experts would be able to clean it up.

It seems like he gets out of the car awfully fast - would he think and act quickly enough to put the dial to headlights on, then get out of the truck?

Where's Lee when we need him?

You must  be listening to a different part.  The last two words are "my truck".  I believe Diwataman cranked it way up and concluded he said, "I still see my truck."  I thought he said, "You'll see my truck."

Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2012, 05:41:42 PM »
Neither might a hostile ,post event, spectator intent on mangling facts to paint a false picture. The difference is that if GZ is innocent it is in his interest to tell the truth to the best of his ability.

However I don't remember Zimmerman commenting on the keys or truck. Why would it dispute any important  evidence in the case? does it place him in pursuit of Trayvon?

So if Zimmerman says one thing and one of the people living in the nearby houses who had no idea this was going to happen and had never met Zimmerman or Martin before says something different, the obvious explanation is that they're lying to get Zimmerman in trouble instead of Zimmerman lying to try to get out of trouble?

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2012, 06:13:55 PM »
No comments on that fact that leaving the keys in the ignition causes a beeper not a chime?  Seems to me like a pretty good reason to believe Zimmerman didn't leave the keys in the ignition.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 06:18:17 PM by MJW »

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2012, 06:24:53 PM »
It seems like he gets out of the car awfully fast - would he think and act quickly enough to put the dial to headlights on, then get out of the truck?

I believe in one of the interviews Zimmerman says before he exited the truck, the engine was running and the lights were on.  I almost certain he mentions he initially had some light while walking toward the "T" because he left the lights on, but they went off automatically after a short time.

Offline Redbrow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 332
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2012, 06:27:44 PM »
I think the exact words are, "The keys are in it".

It seems reasonably clear, but I'm sure audio experts would be able to clean it up.

It seems like he gets out of the car awfully fast - would he think and act quickly enough to put the dial to headlights on, then get out of the truck?

Where's Lee when we need him?

I hear "you'll see me by my truck" before he yields to the dispatcher who is speaking at the same time.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 06:32:31 PM by Redbrow »

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2012, 06:42:34 PM »
Let me add that in my Reply #41, I wasn't suggesting he left the lights and engine on when he got out of the truck.  I was just replying to dragon ash's comment that he would have to turn the headlights on.  They were probably already on, and he turned the engine off and removed the key.  The chime would sound when he opened the driver's door.

Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: George as a Witness
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2012, 06:58:36 PM »
I hear "you'll see me by my truck" before he yields to the dispatcher who is speaking at the same time.

Just listened to it again.

He says "You'll see my truck." and then the dispatcher ask him in front of what address he's parked which buries what he says next.  He may have said "It's a silver Honda Ridgeline" or something like that, but I can't tell.

They really should record dispatcher mics on a separate track so they can go back and do some cancellation magic later when it would be helpful in situations like this.

 

Site Meter
click
tracking