Author Topic: Witness 17 (Lives with "John")  (Read 6072 times)

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Offline Screamin Jay

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Witness 17 (Lives with "John")
« on: July 07, 2012, 05:11:34 PM »
Witness #17
Fiance/wife of witness #6, her testimony compliments his
She was on the phone with IT sitting on the floor downstairs
She said she heard some screaming outside while she and her fiance were watching TV.
She heard a male definitely yelling "help", it sounded like they were running toward them yelling help.
The male with her went to the patio window and opened the blinds.
It was dark and he didn’t see a whole bunch.
He, then, opened the window/door and yelled “hey stop it and said he was calling 911″
she told him to come in and call 911.
She crawled toward the stairwell (crawling because she was on crutches).
7:16:56 She heard the gunshot while she was crawling upstairs.
She called the neighbors to the north - witnesses 11 and 20
Upstairs in the back bedroom her husband looked out.
The man with her said, Oh my God! Someone is lying on the grass!”
Then, he told her the police were there.
She didn’t look out until after when they were doing CPR on Trayvon.
------------------------------------
So, the shooting happened in her back grassy area. Her neighbor to the south is witness #3.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 10:14:28 PM by TalkLeft »

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 02:46:47 PM »
Witness #17
Fiance/wife of witness #6, her testimony compliments his
She was on the phone with IT sitting on the floor downstairs
She said she heard some screaming outside while she and her fiance were watching TV.
She heard a male definitely yelling "help", it sounded like they were running toward them yelling help.
The male with her went to the patio window and opened the blinds.
It was dark and he didn’t see a whole bunch.
He, then, opened the window/door and yelled “hey stop it and said he was calling 911″
she told him to come in and call 911.
She crawled toward the stairwell (crawling because she was on crutches).
7:16:56 She heard the gunshot while she was crawling upstairs.
She called the neighbors to the north - witnesses 11 and 20
Upstairs in the back bedroom her husband looked out.
The man with her said, Oh my God! Someone is lying on the grass!”
Then, he told her the police were there.
She didn’t look out until after when they were doing CPR on Trayvon.
------------------------------------
So, the shooting happened in her back grassy area. Her neighbor to the south is witness #3.

I wonder what W6 told his fiance before he amended his statement.  Surely, they talked about this for a few days after it happened.    Particularly if W6 was feeling pressure from other residents.  Supporting GZ became very unpopular after a couple of weeks.  Could she be called to testify?

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 05:01:37 PM »
I wonder what W6 told his fiance before he amended his statement.  Surely, they talked about this for a few days after it happened.    Particularly if W6 was feeling pressure from other residents.  Supporting GZ became very unpopular after a couple of weeks.  Could she be called to testify?

After reading W6 long revised statements I did not get the feeling that he walked back his statements. Rather that he clarified which of his observation were direct observation as opposed to judgements based on his observations

I suspect that given the right questions W6 will be able to defend the probability of his initial observations.

For instance ( all hypothetical for illustrative purposes)

Q: As you observe the fight what was the man on top doing?
A: I observed him straddling the victim is arms and shoulders <witness indicates by alternatively moving both arms up over his shoulders and bringing them done in the area of the bottom mans face and shoulder>.

Q: But you have stated that you did did not witness any punches ?
A: That's correct I could not see if the blows were landed with an open hand or with a closed fist. I also couldn't see exactly where the blows landed  on the bottom man's  upper body

« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 05:04:07 PM by Lousy1 »

Offline AghastInFL

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 06:23:38 AM »
I'm trying to put this as delicately as possible, but your 'hypothetical answers' are retarded.

Much more reasonable & likely answers:

Q: As you observe the fight what was the man on top doing?
A: I observed him straddling the victim. It looked like they were wrestling.

Q: But you have stated that you did did not witness any punches ?
A: That's correct. I did not witness any punches.
"I'm trying to put this as delicately as possible, but your 'hypothetical answers' are retarded."
exactly how does one confuse your high school wrestling match with "Mixed Martial Arts"?
I find it far more probable if pressed for definition W-6 will explain in explicit detail the violence he witnessed.... and how it caused him to use MMA as a descriptive.

Offline IgnatiusJDonnelly

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 06:32:31 AM »
news reports had alot to do with that

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 06:33:00 AM »
"I'm trying to put this as delicately as possible, but your 'hypothetical answers' are retarded."
exactly how does one confuse your high school wrestling match with "Mixed Martial Arts"?
I find it far more probable if pressed for definition W-6 will explain in explicit detail the violence he witnessed.... and how it caused him to use MMA as a descriptive.

I have a hunch this is the case too.

At the second bond hearing, the Defense had W6 on standby ready to testify in case the State objected to entering his statements as evidence.  This is strong indication IMO that O'Mara had talked to W6 already.

And if so, this means that after talking to W6, O'Mara was comfortable using his "throwing down blows MMA style" statement.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 08:04:32 AM »
Yes, I know what he said in that interview, I wasn't talking about that.

I was giving some reason for some fun speculation about what W6 might have said if called to testify at the 2nd bond hearing.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 10:15:36 AM »
"..."
exactly how does one confuse your high school wrestling match with "Mixed Martial Arts"?
I find it far more probable if pressed for definition W-6 will explain in explicit detail the violence he witnessed.... and how it caused him to use MMA as a descriptive.
Quote
John W_6: They're struggling. That's what mean by wrestling at that point. I can't tell, you know, what is
going on at that point. All I know is someone is on top of the other person and I hear "Help, help, help"
yelled a couple times, and me just thinking that it is the person on the bottom yelling "help." Because,
you know, just-- if anybody saw that, they probably would have thought the same thing - that the person
on the bottom is yelling “Help”.
I personally only know of one person who seems confused by this testimony.
Its also worth noting that  MMA, "ground fighting", where neither fighter is standing, but both can continue to throw strikes  is often called wrestling. It derives from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and wrestling but is more brutal than either form.

Latter in the interview
Quote
John W_6: Yeah, because that's my first thought when, you know, I look out there and I see this
happening and the other guy's on top with, you know. I don't know if there are, you know, punches that
are being thrown at him at this point, or if he's trying to hold him down, um, you know. It really just
happened so quick, for the most part, but if anybody had not known anything what was going on, that's
what it seemed like to me at that point when, you know, I looked out there and there's one guy on top of
the other at that point, and both arms are, you know, d-- I don't know if he's trying to hold him down, or if
those are actually punches
, um, but. Yeah

A neutral interviewer would probably ask him to clarify that last sentence. A punch is thrown with a closed fist. Strike is a more inclusive term. It includes the same motions motions as a punch  but the opponent is not necessarily hit with a  fist. If TM was trying to return GZ's head to the pavement by shoving his head back to the pavement, or smashing his face with an elbow that would be a strike not a punch.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 10:27:41 AM by Lousy1 »

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 11:38:32 AM »
He said in later interviews he wasn't sure if  TM was throwing punches or just trying to hold GZ down.

As to the MMA, he explained it in his FDLE interview:

Quote
John W_6: If you, if you ever watch MMA, the guy that's on top is usually in control, is what I-- That's what I meant, like, he had control, at that point, is what I meant. Um, as-- If I was on top of you, at that point, I don't know if I'm trying to hold you down. That's what I was saying. It looked like, ah, you know, he had been hitting him from-- on top. But, you know, I can't truly see how close, you know, they were to each other, if he was hitting him, or if he was trying to hold him down in that position until the cops got there. So that's what I mean in a MMA position, because it usually called like a mounted position, er, or something like that, but I'm not sure if that's what it was. But he was on top at that point.

Investigator: Is this information-- Do you follow the MMA fighting? Have you fought, or wrestled in high school?

John W_6: No I don't fight or wrestle, no. Um, you know, I just watch it. It's all over the TV now, so. It's just everywhere. So that's just when, you know, I made that statement, that's the type of, ah, body situation he was in at that point. Um, but like, in my first statement that I made, I did say that he was hitting him from on top, um, because that's what it looked like. I mean he could have still been hitting him, or he could have been trying to hold him down, you know. It was, you know, I really, truly can't tell at that point. Um, but my first reaction, you know, from what-- just seeing it real quick, bam bam bam, that's what it looked like at that point.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 11:54:34 AM »
He said in later interviews he wasn't sure if  TM was throwing punches or just trying to hold GZ down.

As to the MMA, he explained it in his FDLE interview:
Even a casual fan of MMA, like John,  should understand a mount reference. It's a term used multiple times by announcers describing the action most rounds.
Since John could see Trayvon's upper body I don't think that statically holding GZ in position could be confused with punching. To me, John's testimony strongly suggests some
Quote
bam bam bam
violent activity on Treyvon's part. I think John admits that he can't distinguish the tactical motive for that activity.
I suspect the defense interview will help clarify John's observation. Its too bad we don't have a video of John's "Bam,bam, bam" interjection.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 11:57:17 AM by Lousy1 »

Offline Philly

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 05:22:56 PM »
This really belongs in the W6 thread.  There's really not much to be said about W17 - she was an earwitness only.

I'll reply there.

Even a casual fan of MMA, like John,  should understand a mount reference. It's a term used multiple times by announcers describing the action most rounds.
Since John could see Trayvon's upper body I don't think that statically holding GZ in position could be confused with punching. To me, John's testimony strongly suggests some violent activity on Treyvon's part. I think John admits that he can't distinguish the tactical motive for that activity.
I suspect the defense interview will help clarify John's observation. Its too bad we don't have a video of John's "Bam,bam, bam" interjection.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Witness 17
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2012, 12:31:31 AM »
This really belongs in the W6 thread.  There's really not much to be said about W17 - she was an earwitness only. I'll reply there.

Thank you. You are right that this thread should be about W-17, not W-6. I can't move individual posts, I can only move threads, so I'll let them stay. But the commenters who wrote about W6 may want to repost on the W6 thread so I can delete these.

 

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