State v. George Zimmerman (Pre-Trial) > Evidence Discussion

What Happened at the "T"?

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RickyJim:
At his first interview on the night of the 26th, Zimmerman claimed he fell down and was mounted right after Martin's sucker punch.  During the walkthrough, his gestures indicate there was movement southward before he fell down.  Also, witnesses heard shouting from 2 or more people before the yelling for help started.  The shouts seemed to migrate from the T to John's lawn.  Zimmerman has not included an account of what the shouts were about, AFAIK.  Does anybody remember him being asked about that?  Was there an opportunity for him to diffuse the situation by identifying himself before he was on the ground being pummeled?  The evidence from the witnesses to the shouting and the fact that he wants to give the impression that he and Martin exchanged one sentence a piece at the T, raises suspicions.  Could a prosecution argument be based on it?

Lousy1:

--- Quote from: RickyJim on July 09, 2012, 09:07:40 AM ---At his first interview on the night of the 26th, Zimmerman claimed he fell down and was mounted right after Martin's sucker punch.  During the walkthrough, his gestures indicate there was movement southward before he fell down.  Also, witnesses heard shouting from 2 or more people before the yelling for help started.  The shouts seemed to migrate from the T to John's lawn.  Zimmerman has not included an account of what the shouts were about, AFAIK.  Does anybody remember him being asked about that?  Was there an opportunity for him to diffuse the situation by identifying himself before he was on the ground being pummeled?   The evidence from the witnesses to the shouting and the fact that he wants to give the impression that he and Martin exchanged one sentence a piece at the T, raises suspicions.  Could a prosecution argument be based on it?

--- End quote ---

Why do you assume that identifying himself would diffuse the situation?

RickyJim:

--- Quote from: Lousy1 on July 09, 2012, 09:16:01 AM ---Why do you assume that identifying himself would diffuse the situation?

--- End quote ---

It might not have diffused the situation.  I find the fact that Zimmerman didn't claim to have tried, noteworthy.  I think Serino was tending towards this argument in his Capias, as part of the case for negligent homicide.

leftwig:
I honestly don't recall Z saying he fell right where he was struck and TM was mounted on top of him instantaneously. I agree he didn't elaborate on the actual movements that occurred the night of the event, but I wouldn't equate lack of details that night as proof that the details of the reenactment are fabricated.

The witnesses that describe the shouting/arguing starting at the T, talk of it being a brief exchange and then a period of silence (from a few seconds up to 10 minutes from one witness).  The other witnesses that talk about the second round of shouting could very well be referring to the screams for help.  The 911 call captures the shout out of screams for help and some witnesses identify that the words are help and others just say more generically that its people shouting.

I guess its possible Z could have diffused the situation, but one would have to make some assumptions.  If the story Z is telling is true (TM surprised him out of the dark coming at him) he probably figured saying he was a neighborhood watch person wasn't going to change TM's intentions and I doubt it was the first thing that came to mind (I'm guessing that was more like oh crap, I thought he was gone, now I need some help).  Others have said that if he had just said he called police and they are on the way, then TM would not have attacked.  I guess my answer to that would be that John said he was going to call 911 and there doesn't appear to be any indication that this caused TM to stop his assault so I'm not sure its a valid thought.  Not sure its worth spending much time on as Z didn't identify himself and it doesn't matter either way to his self defense claim.  The fact that Serino referenced this in his capias is just another indication why its prosecutors that make the final decision on whether to charge and not policemen.

nomatter_nevermind:

--- Quote from: RickyJim on July 09, 2012, 09:07:40 AM ---The shouts seemed to migrate from the T to John's lawn.
--- End quote ---

Who said that? My recollection is that the shouts changed to 'scuffling' before the source of the sounds moved.


--- Quote ---Zimmerman has not included an account of what the shouts were about, AFAIK.
--- End quote ---

Zimmerman didn't comment on the volume of the words exchanged between himself and Martin, and he wasn't asked about it.

W-11 thought she heard three shouts, but she wasn't sure. It's possible that only one of them was shouting, and the other went unheard.

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