Author Topic: What Happened at the "T"?  (Read 56809 times)

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Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2012, 08:43:06 PM »
"I would be more inclined that the wind blew that bag to its resting place."

From where?

I think he had it in the front pocket of the hoodie.  All of the heavy items stayed in the pocket and the bag came loose during the scuffle. 

How do you propose the bag got there?  I hardly think that TM returned to pick up a bag when he all of the items in his pocket. 

BTW, I read in one of the reports that an EMS tech mentioned the button still being on his hoodie, not in the pocket.

Offline unitron

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2012, 09:29:24 PM »
I think he had it in the front pocket of the hoodie.  All of the heavy items stayed in the pocket and the bag came loose during the scuffle. 

Perhaps so.  I do wish those who noticed the can in the hoodie pocket had mentioned whether it was still in the bag or not, but they were busy trying to get it out of the way to get to the wound.

Perhaps they unzipped the hoodie and opened it and that's when the can fell from the pocket and slid out of the bag, leaving the bag at the wind's mercy.

They were busy trying to keep him from dying and keeping up with the can or the bag would have been a much lower priority.

How do you propose the bag got there?  I hardly think that TM returned to pick up a bag when he all of the items in his pocket. 

Someone has posited the theory that Martin somehow lost the bag and can during his initial "rapid removal of himself from Zimmmerman's line of sight", and perhaps he returned for it and that's when he and Zimmerman came into close proximity.

BTW, I read in one of the reports that an EMS tech mentioned the button still being on his hoodie, not in the pocket.

If I'd been told it came off during the struggle I'd have found that quite believable, although I suppose it depends on the nature of the struggle as to whether it was odd that it didn't.

Offline MJW

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2012, 09:57:13 PM »
Someone has posited the theory that Martin somehow lost the bag and can during his initial "rapid removal of himself from Zimmmerman's line of sight", and perhaps he returned for it and that's when he and Zimmerman came into close proximity.

Did this someone have a scintilla of evidence that that happened?

Offline unitron

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2012, 10:09:11 PM »
Did this someone have a scintilla of evidence that that happened?

As I said, it's someone's theory, and it doesn't necessarily conflict with the "St. George and the Drug Goon" narrative so beloved here.

Martin disappears around corner and hides somewhere, losing the bag and can sometime during the process.

Zimmerman gets to "T", looks around, doesn't see Martin, proceeds east to RVC to get that address.

Martin comes out of hiding, retrieves bag and can, Zimmerman comes back west enroute to truck, Martin is enraged that he won't go away and stay away, and comes at him out of the dark.

See, it's possible without contradicting the main narrative.

Offline MJW

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2012, 10:30:31 PM »
As I said, it's someone's theory, and it doesn't necessarily conflict with the "St. George and the Drug Goon" narrative so beloved here.

There are theories based on the evidence, and there are theories than are nothing more than baseless conjecture.  I just wanted to establish which it was.

Offline unitron

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2012, 10:47:25 PM »
There are theories based on the evidence, and there are theories than are nothing more than baseless conjecture.  I just wanted to establish which it was.

I think that one based on when we saw the 7-11 video the can was in the bag and later it wasn't, what are the possibilities for how they got separated.

Offline spectator

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2012, 02:27:15 AM »
As I said, it's someone's theory, and it doesn't necessarily conflict with the "St. George and the Drug Goon" narrative so beloved here.

Martin disappears around corner and hides somewhere, losing the bag and can sometime during the process.

Zimmerman gets to "T", looks around, doesn't see Martin, proceeds east to RVC to get that address.

Martin comes out of hiding, retrieves bag and can, Zimmerman comes back west enroute to truck, Martin is enraged that he won't go away and stay away, and comes at him out of the dark.

See, it's possible without contradicting the main narrative.


We might hear how that happened, as of now there's a large number of possibles but that's one of the funniest i've heard so far, but it is possible.

Offline turbo6

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #67 on: July 30, 2012, 09:38:51 PM »
Martin comes out of hiding, retrieves bag and can, Zimmerman comes back west enroute to truck, Martin is enraged that he won't go away and stay away, and comes at him out of the dark.

Its odd that he even took a bag to begin with, considering he was probably going to stow the items in the front hoodie pocket for the trek home. GZ never mentioned a bag, but rather something in his hand so perhaps he simply "wrapped" the bag up around the Arizona can and clutched that and later put it in the front pocket.

The fact that he chose to keep the items on him, rather than putting them down seems telling to me that he likely felt confident he wasn't going to lose the items after confronting GZ and by having them tucked away he could quickly return home with them, without having to go back with nothing to show for the trip.

Initiating the encounter with his hands free versus approaching with the bag in hand, allows to play offense or defense much easier. If it played out anything like when they crossed paths by the SUV, a startled GZ giving a meek response to his question, while nervously fumbling in his pockets - That was more than likely the confirmation TM was looking for to "Can I take care of this guy?".


Offline Lousy1

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #68 on: July 30, 2012, 09:58:24 PM »
Its odd that he even took a bag to begin with, considering he was probably going to stow the items in the front hoodie pocket for the trek home. GZ never mentioned a bag, but rather something in his hand so perhaps he simply "wrapped" the bag up around the Arizona can and clutched that and later put it in the front pocket.

The fact that he chose to keep the items on him, rather than putting them down seems telling to me that he likely felt confident he wasn't going to lose the items after confronting GZ and by having them tucked away he could quickly return home with them, without having to go back with nothing to show for the trip.

Initiating the encounter with his hands free versus approaching with the bag in hand, allows to play offense or defense much easier. If it played out anything like when they crossed paths by the SUV, a startled GZ giving a meek response to his question, while nervously fumbling in his pockets - That was more than likely the confirmation TM was looking for to "Can I take care of this guy?".

I agree if I got a bag with candy and a can in it once I relocated the contents of that bag to my pocket I have no need for the bag.

Perhaps Martin, realizing his environmental faux pas was retaining the bag, obstinately avoiding refuse cans on his return path. Perhaps he was  awaiting the day when science would find a way to transform plastic bags into egg Mcmuffins?
 Then again he might have been anticipating finding other items that he might collect in an easily discard-able bag. We don't know if that would be a valid prediction of his fortune at this juncture.



Offline whitecap333

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2012, 06:02:21 PM »
It's a little difficult for me to believe that Martin would have wanted to remain engaged in chit-chat with Dee Dee once he decided to approach Zimmerman aggressively.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2012, 06:18:55 PM »
It's a little difficult for me to believe that Martin would have wanted to remain engaged in chit-chat with Dee Dee once he decided to approach Zimmerman aggressively.

So the obvious answer is that he wasn't approaching GZ aggressively.


Offline AJ

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2012, 06:38:09 PM »
So the obvious answer is that he wasn't approaching GZ aggressively.

Given everything in this case, how is that anywhere close to being the "obvious" answer?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2012, 02:17:42 PM »
Zimmerman didn't comment on the volume of the words exchanged between himself and Martin, and he wasn't asked about it.

My error.

In the reenactment, Zimmerman said Martin yelled.

2/27R, 7:28-35
Quote
And then, when I got to right about here, he yelled, from behind me, to the side of me. He said, "Yo, you got a problem?"

Offline RickyJim

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2012, 02:43:32 PM »
From the "T", what are the distances to

1. Zimmerman's car?
2. Location of Martin's body?
3. Brandy Green's townhouse?

The best reference for these facts is?

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: What Happened at the "T"?
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2012, 02:54:29 PM »
From the "T", what are the distances to

1. Zimmerman's car?
2. Location of Martin's body?
3. Brandy Green's townhouse?

The best reference for these facts is?

The best reference would be for you to go to Twin Lakes and measure.
Other people's calculations off Google Maps are not necessarily factual or accurate.
We don't know exactly where he was parked.

You can also get the plat of Twin Lakes from the state assessor's office .


 

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