Author Topic: items in Trayvons pockets  (Read 32307 times)

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Offline Redbrow

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2012, 11:36:58 PM »
Cite?
Social media links and talking about them are not allowed here. Maybe you can cite your evidence that wftv and the gentleman interviewed conspired to deceive the public.

A google search of 'site:wftv.com "slain teen"' custom range Feb 25, 2012–Mar 24, 2012 shows a link dated Mar 23, 2012. It could have aired or been posted earlier.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2012, 12:23:59 AM »

To me, the important thing is to find out where those earbuds were. If they were in the pocket it affects Dee Dee's sworn statement.

The earphones are a point of variance between Dee Dee's two statements.

Some of what she told Crump is intelligible in the released audio.

6:11-17
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[Unintelligible] pushed, I just know somebody pushed Trayvon, because the headset just fell. And then after that [unintelligible] phone shut off.

Dee Dee didn't repeat that to de la Rionda. She said something about the headphones in the kind of Dee Dee speak that loses me.

12:10-48
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De la Rionda: So the last thing you heard was some kind of noise like-

Dee Dee: Yeah.

De la Rionda: -something hitting somebody?

Dee Dee: Yeah.

De la Rionda: OK. And, when you heard that noise, something hitting somebody, you did, did you hear the man say anything, or did you hear Trayvon say anything?

Dee Dee: I can hear a little bit.

De la Rionda: OK. What could you hear?

Dee Dee: I could of just hear, like, like, it's like, the headphones, because of the headphones, he might got off.

De la Rionda: OK.

Dee Dee: But I could still hear a little bit, like.

De la Rionda: OK. What could you hear?

Dee Dee: Like a little "Get off," some stuff.

De la Rionda: You heard "Get off"?

Dee Dee: Like a little "Get off." [crosstalk]

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If they were loose on the ground or still attached to the phone, which I don't see them in the picture

Sgt. Stacie McCoy and Sgt. Leon Ciesla reported seeing them next to Martin's body (May 17 release, pp. 17, 20).

Sgt. Ciesla, Sgt. Joseph Santiago (p. 16), and CST Diana Smith (p. 80), listed the earphones among the items that were collected when the ME people examined the body.

The earphones were probably visible in some of the pictures of Martin's uncovered body, which haven't been released. In other pictures they would either be under the blanket or already collected.

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it should have been noted by LE

It was, by SPD Sgts. McCoy and Ciesla.

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and given an evidence tag.

You mean an object marker?

I would think so too, since all the other items found on the ground were given markers. But I don't really know what procedures govern that. Maybe the earphones weren't given an OM because they were close to the body, or because they were thought to have fallen from the body when it was rolled over for CPR.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2012, 05:09:43 AM »
If Trayvon's phone was located so far away from the body why would the earphones be located right next to it? They were ear buds, right? They would have been pulled out of his ears pretty easily if they were still connected to the phone when he dropped/threw/whatever it. If not then they would surely have worked themselves free during the struggle that, as we know, moved around quite a bit. So again, why right next to the body (assuming that's where they actually were found)? Offhand the thing that makes the most sense is they were taken out of his pocket like the can was.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2012, 05:20:04 AM »
Offhand the thing that makes the most sense is they were taken out of his pocket like the can was.

If Livingston moved both items, why would she only mention one?

Offline FromBelow

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2012, 05:40:51 AM »
If Livingston moved both items, why would she only mention one?
The large item is what was noteworthy because it got in her way. I'm speculating of course, but why else the difference in distance between the phone and the earphones?

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2012, 09:13:46 AM »
I never specified in my post which bag was used to try and seal the wound.  Yes, it was the Wal Mart bag which was found on the ground and photographed into evidence.

We both agree that it was the 4th officer to first mention seeing the head phones on the ground, so how is my statement that she is the first officer to see the headphones on the ground wrong?  I guess you could argue that the first three officers saw them but didn't report them, but then you have subsequent officers and the official evidence log indicating the head phones were in the pockets.   

According to Diana Smith who took photographs of the evidence and the area, the button and headphones were logged as either being on his person or in his pockets.  No mention of them being on the ground.  As she walked through the area to collect the evidence, the other officers pointed out that the exposed can of juice came out of the victims pocket when they tried to revive him.  No mention in her report of any officers mentioning the headphones which she says were in his pockets or on his person, not on the ground.

My point would be is that given this report and the evidence log, if I were the defense, I would be using this information to my advantage.  I agree the 4th officer sees the headphones on the ground after the body was rolled over and being worked on.  The first three officers make no mention of the head phones being seen and they are not photographed into evidence that we know of.  In the evidence collection walk through, the headphones are listed as either being on his person or in his pockets, not on the ground.  The evidence log lists the head phones as contents of his pockets. 

We both agree that it was the 4th officer to first mention seeing the head phones on the ground, so how is my statement that she is the first officer to see the headphones on the ground wrong?  I guess you could argue that the first three officers saw them but didn't report it, but then you have subsequent officers and the official evidence log indicating the head phones were in TM's pocket.   

Again, there is some ambiguity as to where the headphones were when officers first arrived, but the collection of their observations and reports seem to indicate that its quite possible they were in TM's pockets.  IF the first two officers who worked on Martin don't testify to seeing them on the ground before they started their work, then I think the balance of evidence would point to his pockets being their proper location before the body was turned over and worked on.

Bumping this because I think that Leftwig has a valid  point.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2012, 11:18:51 AM »
Picture of Cell 1

Picture of Cell 2

I can't zoom on these but if someone else could, I would appreciate it.  It looks to me like the ear buds are still attached to the top of the phone.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 11:23:35 AM by DebFrmHell »

Offline leftwig

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2012, 01:49:16 PM »
I agree, how the cell ended up where it did in relation to the body and the headphones is an interesting question.  Couple of points, some of which have been mentioned:

- I don't quite understand how the headphones would have been located beside the body and not been given an evidence tag and photographed separately.  It would seem more likely to me that an officer or two noticed them after being removed from somewhere and placed on the ground than them not being tagged and photographed separately as evidence if apart from the body.  If someone took them from the ground and placed them into TM's pockets without tagging and bagging, that would be a huge mistake.   Also, I'd assume if the headphones were external to the pockets or in plain view by police, they would have been tested for DNA.  Were they (I know I could look at discovery and see this, but I thought maybe someone would recall off the top of their heads)?  Don't know if its standard procedure to test for DNA on items found within a victims pockets.

- Dee Dee couldn't possibly have heard the "head phones".  Now, she has trouble communicating so who knows what she meant, but headphones do not transmit sound so she could not have heard the phones fall out of his ears.  IT could mean she heard the headphone being disconnected from the jack on the phone, or ruffling sounds in the mic, but she didn't hear the headphones. 

- In the 711, TM's phone was not in his hands, so it would have been in one of his pockets.  If I had to, I would guess the phone was in his pants pockets as I don't think he would have put the bag with the can at the same location as his phone.  He could have taken the phone out at any point, but GZ doesn't describe TM on the phone or seeing a phone and I'd think with it raining he would have kept the phone protected in a pocket.  I wonder how the phone got out of his pockets and onto the ground yet a can stayed in his front sweatshirt pocket?  The juice can and Skittles remained inside pockets through the struggle, but the phone ended up on the ground disconnected from the headphones.

- Were the Skittles found in his pants pockets?  I believe this is what the report says, but he put the Skittles inside his hoodie pocket at the store.  Why didn't he put the Skittles in the same bag as the can?  I realize he did this at the store (Skittles into pocket, then requested bag for the can), but unless I'm planning on consuming one or the other, I'd have put them both in the bag.  Probably no relevance to the case, but just something I wondered.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2012, 03:19:42 PM »
IMO, a sweaty can would ruin the bag the candy was in...but so would rain.  He carried the bag in his hand going out of the store.  GZ doesn't make note of the bag in his hand in the NEN but he mentions the button.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2012, 04:57:22 PM »
Dee Dee . . .  could not have heard the phones fall out of his ears. 

She didn't say she did. That's just how some people have paraphrased her.

She said 'the headset just fell'.

She probably won't be allowed to say that in court. She'll be asked to describe the sounds she heard as best she can. The jury (or judge in an immunity hearing) will draw their own conclusions. See Fla. Stat. § 90.701.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2012, 05:32:06 PM »
If Livingston moved both items, why would she only mention one?

The large item is what was noteworthy because it got in her way.

If the earphones weren't in her way, why would she move them?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2012, 05:42:24 PM »

- Were the Skittles found in his pants pockets?  I believe this is what the report says, but he put the Skittles inside his hoodie pocket at the store.

The summary of Investigator Malphurs's SAO interview says 'The Skittles was in the top front pocket of the Victim's hoodie.' (p. 35 of the July 12 release)

I don't recall any other report being specific about where the candy was found.

Offline unitron

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2012, 06:21:10 PM »
Picture of Cell 1

Picture of Cell 2

I can't zoom on these but if someone else could, I would appreciate it.  It looks to me like the ear buds are still attached to the top of the phone.

Only if the cords and earpieces are all colored grass green, I think.

Of course I was never able to see the eject shell in the pictures of it, either.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2012, 06:40:53 PM »
Picture of Cell 1

Picture of Cell 2

I can't zoom on these but if someone else could, I would appreciate it.  It looks to me like the ear buds are still attached to the top of the phone.

Zooming, it looks like mostly shadows of grass blades. In the first picture there's a blob that could be black plastic, or some other kind of debris, or maybe an insect. The dark line that touches the phone and points toward the blob, on magnification I would say is definitely the shadow of a grass blade.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 06:45:53 PM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline unitron

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Re: items in Trayvons pockets: Juice, headset, button etc
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2012, 06:50:11 PM »
I agree, how the cell ended up where it did in relation to the body and the headphones is an interesting question.  Couple of points, some of which have been mentioned:

- I don't quite understand how the headphones would have been located beside the body and not been given an evidence tag and photographed separately.  It would seem more likely to me that an officer or two noticed them after being removed from somewhere and placed on the ground than them not being tagged and photographed separately as evidence if apart from the body.  If someone took them from the ground and placed them into TM's pockets without tagging and bagging, that would be a huge mistake.   Also, I'd assume if the headphones were external to the pockets or in plain view by police, they would have been tested for DNA.  Were they (I know I could look at discovery and see this, but I thought maybe someone would recall off the top of their heads)?  Don't know if its standard procedure to test for DNA on items found within a victims pockets.

- Dee Dee couldn't possibly have heard the "head phones".  Now, she has trouble communicating so who knows what she meant, but headphones do not transmit sound so she could not have heard the phones fall out of his ears.  IT could mean she heard the headphone being disconnected from the jack on the phone, or ruffling sounds in the mic, but she didn't hear the headphones. 

- In the 711, TM's phone was not in his hands, so it would have been in one of his pockets.  If I had to, I would guess the phone was in his pants pockets as I don't think he would have put the bag with the can at the same location as his phone.  He could have taken the phone out at any point, but GZ doesn't describe TM on the phone or seeing a phone and I'd think with it raining he would have kept the phone protected in a pocket.  I wonder how the phone got out of his pockets and onto the ground yet a can stayed in his front sweatshirt pocket?  The juice can and Skittles remained inside pockets through the struggle, but the phone ended up on the ground disconnected from the headphones.

- Were the Skittles found in his pants pockets?  I believe this is what the report says, but he put the Skittles inside his hoodie pocket at the store.  Why didn't he put the Skittles in the same bag as the can?  I realize he did this at the store (Skittles into pocket, then requested bag for the can), but unless I'm planning on consuming one or the other, I'd have put them both in the bag.  Probably no relevance to the case, but just something I wondered.

In giving it further thought, one might suspect that Trayvon had the phone in a pants pocket and the cord running up underneath the hoodie to his ears.  Otherwise, if the cord was outside the hoodie, it would get in the way when putting the hood up, the wind would catch the length of the cord and whip it around, et cetera.

Which raises questions about when and how the phone came out of the pants pocket, and when and how the earphone plug got detached from the phone and when and how the earphone earpieces got detached from Trayvon's ears, and how the earphones got out from under the hoodie.

 

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