Author Topic: Who is screaming on the 911 call?  (Read 39265 times)

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Offline AJ

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2012, 06:38:00 AM »
You would expect scratches on Martin's hands if Zimmerman was pushing his fingertips under Martin's hands in order to get them off his face.  How else could you get them off?

Trying to deflect by moving/pushing up on the wrists would be one way. There are many other ways. As the saying goes "there's more than one way to skin a cat."

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #106 on: July 19, 2012, 06:54:57 AM »
You would expect scratches on Martin's hands if Zimmerman was pushing his fingertips under Martin's hands in order to get them off his face.  How else could you get them off?

Maybe you'd expect scratches. Then again, maybe you wear your nails longer than George?

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #107 on: July 19, 2012, 06:56:50 AM »

I hope I answered your questions but I think we should drop this.  Jeralyn gets upset when things get too personal.  And we are way off topic.

You're quite right about it, but perhaps it's helpful for people to hear about experiences and reactions?


Offline leftwig

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #108 on: July 19, 2012, 06:59:06 AM »
Everybody reacts differently.  If I'm taking a beating, and more or less panicked, I stop screaming the instant the attacker gets off me.  And if I've got a massive force advantage (gun in the hand) I'm past the point of screaming for help and at the point of acting, watching, and self-help.  I don't need help anymore - it's too late for that.  Once the fear of death passes, the calculus changes again.  I think all that "adjustment" can happen in realtime - seconds, if not fractions of a second.

I was about to post something similar when I read this statement.  The only thing I was going to add was that Z had been screaming for at least 40 seconds, probably closer to 60 seconds and no one had come to help.  He had just got done pleading to John for help, but he went back inside.  Z's previous screams didn't seem to bring any help, so I'm guessing he was in self help mode by that point. 

I'm not sure I'd actually think anything right after the shot as I'd be in reaction mode, but if the guy who had been assaulting me got off me for any reason, the first thing I would do is get up, then try to make sure he stayed down and didn't have a weapon.  I then would probably call for help.  It seems like this is about the time that the first witness on the scene came around the corner.

Offline ding7777

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #109 on: July 19, 2012, 11:25:02 AM »
DebFrmHell - damn, sounds like you went through a right ordeal.  Looks like you got through to the other side, which I'm glad of.

When you were attacked - that's a really traumatic experience. Hyperventilating, adrenaline rush, lingering and residue shock/fear - that doesn't go away quickly does it?

isn't that what the defense is claiming - GZ's attack was a traumatic experience and GZ was in fear of his life?

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #110 on: July 19, 2012, 11:29:23 AM »
You would expect scratches on Martin's hands if Zimmerman was pushing his fingertips under Martin's hands in order to get them off his face.  How else could you get them off?

Block or slap them off. Much easier than trying to lift them off.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #111 on: July 19, 2012, 11:32:07 AM »
Block or slap them off. Much easier than trying to lift them off.

Grab their wrist and push or pull and move your head the opposite direction would be the way self defense classes would teach it.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #112 on: July 19, 2012, 11:49:35 AM »
Grab their wrist and push or pull and move your head the opposite direction would be the way self defense classes would teach it.
I agree anything that will move the hands laterally is easier. While Zimmerman could try to grab a (clothed?) wrist I doubt that anyone in his position could maintain that wrist hold unless they were significantly stronger than their assailant.  He very limited freedom of motion; had movement to the side is very restricted.
After a minute of fighting, Zimmerman must be in a bad position. He can delay the inevitable but his strength has got to be almost drained.


Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #113 on: July 19, 2012, 12:29:40 PM »

After a minute of fighting, Zimmerman must be in a bad position. He can delay the inevitable but his strength has got to be almost drained.

An excellent point often overlooked. And once his strength is gone and he can't keep Trayvon off of him, what then?

Offline AJ

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #114 on: July 19, 2012, 10:16:15 PM »
It's a different word being screamed, but by the same person*. The word being screamed at the end isn't "help" .. it is "stop." You can verify this by "reading" the spectrograph of the audio (if you aren't experienced in reading it you probably won't be able to, and I really don't have the time to explain it, maybe some audio analyst out there somewhere has already done the reading and typed it up on their blog somewhere).

"By the same person" is my opinion, which I posted reasoning for elsewhere in these forums.

Just a follow up to this post. It was pointed out to me that a forensic audio specialist did review this call and came to the same conclusion that I did regarding the "stop." He also says he hears "Martin" yelling "I'm begging you" but I haven't reached this conclusion myself (to be honest, I haven't looked into it yet either.. but I will, and I suspect he'll be correct about the words). You can find his detailed analysis and an explanation of how to read a spectrograph here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martin-case-911-call-two-experts-reach-two-much-different-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

* He doesn't really explain -how- to read it, but he does show a comparison between "help" and "stop"
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 10:23:29 PM by AJ »

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #115 on: July 19, 2012, 11:48:20 PM »
Just a follow up to this post. It was pointed out to me that a forensic audio specialist did review this call and came to the same conclusion that I did regarding the "stop." He also says he hears "Martin" yelling "I'm begging you" but I haven't reached this conclusion myself (to be honest, I haven't looked into it yet either.. but I will, and I suspect he'll be correct about the words). You can find his detailed analysis and an explanation of how to read a spectrograph here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martin-case-911-call-two-experts-reach-two-much-different-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

* He doesn't really explain -how- to read it, but he does show a comparison between "help" and "stop"

I am kind of skeptical about his report.  He is determining the age of the two gentlemen. but he doesn't say anything about how the airway to Zimmerman's nose could be compromised.  Pinch your nose shut, partially at the bridge, and speak out loud.  Your voice quality changes.  There is also the fact that Trayvon's voice is probably deeper since he is over sixteen. 

I wonder why the family hasn't come forth with any recorded video of TM.  I find it hard to believe that there is nothing that they have in their possession, some film clip on a cell or a video, something that is relatively current.  If they don't have something, maybe one of his friends?  IDK.

I just don't understand how he can determine the voices and the age. 

He is definitely using GZ's voice on the NEN for comparison but his voice is relatively calm in the NEN.  He is not in any altercation during that time.  Certainly not a life or death struggle as the end of the 911.

Every word that he has attributed to Trayvon Martin could easily becoming out of George Zimmerman/s mouth, IMO. 

It is a very interesting article.  Thanks for bringing it in.  It gives me a good idea about the dueling experts that will be involved in this case.  I wish I could hear it.   Computer is half-arsed broken, files corrupted, a mess...  I am grateful just to still have the net!




Offline AJ

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #116 on: July 19, 2012, 11:56:47 PM »
I am kind of skeptical about his report.  He is determining the age of the two gentlemen. but he doesn't say anything about how the airway to Zimmerman's nose could be compromised.  Pinch your nose shut, partially at the bridge, and speak out loud.  Your voice quality changes.  There is also the fact that Trayvon's voice is probably deeper since he is over sixteen. 

Yeah, I wasn't showing it for that analysis - specifically just the spectrograph information since I don't have the time to sit down and explain all that - in fact, all I read from it was the comparison between the "help" and "stop" - where he's showing the difference between the words themselves. As for the "plug your nose" thing - that's true to -some- degree, but it's not always true. Take for example the two words "help" and "stop." Your nose doesn't play nearly as much a part when you compare them to other words, like "no." I still haven't looked at the "I'm begging you" but that should definitely have a bit to do with the nasal passage being blocked.

Offline MJW

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #117 on: July 20, 2012, 12:36:08 AM »
An interesting aspect of the article is this:
Quote
Reich is almost certain he hears this voice shout “What the f---” at 7:16:48. At different points in the recording, Reich said, the voice he believes is Zimmerman’s comes in short, assertive bursts of language in which the words are not clear but the tone and rhythm are.

According to the article:
Quote
And at 7:16:11, a woman’s 911 call began recording the sounds.

7:16:48 - 7:16:11 =  37

Whoa! I said earlier in this thread:
Quote
I assume if it's true, someone else has noticed it, but when I open the scream 911 call in Audacity and select the region from 36.811 to 37.787 (typing it in, using seconds and millisecond format), I think I can hear words being spoken.  I'm not certain what they are, and I won't say what I think they might be in order not to influence anyone else who wants to try it.

Now that I find an expert (or at least a supposed expert) also thinks there's something there, I'll reveal what I think I hear.  It isn't “What the f---," it's either "No f---ing..." or "Yo' f---ing..."  (the end is talked over).  I make no claims that that's actually what's said, or that anything is said.

Offline AJ

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #118 on: July 20, 2012, 01:21:15 AM »
I disagree with Mr. Reich on the "I'm begging you" - what he's listening to is much closer to the caller than the screamer in the background, probably the male she's speaking to later. You can hear both that sound and the scream at the same time and it's clear that one is MUCH closer than the other. I also disagree with the "What the f---" - he's listening to a scream that interrupted by talking over it. Looking at the signature in the spectrograph shows that it's similar to the other screams for "help" (but not the "stop"). You can hear the full scream in-between the words of the dispatcher and starting at the 36.290 mark.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 01:26:26 AM by AJ »

Offline MJW

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #119 on: July 20, 2012, 01:57:59 AM »
At 36.29, I hear the male 911 caller say what sounds something like -- I can't understand him at all -- "You need to call the cops!" spoken very quickly and percussively (and oddly, in a similar manner to the supposed "I'm begging you!").  The interval between that and the 911 operator talking sounds to me nothing like "Help!" or "Help me!" or a scream.  I hear three distinct syllables.  Perhaps it's my imagination, but that's what I hear.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 02:06:40 AM by MJW »

 

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