Author Topic: Who is screaming on the 911 call?  (Read 44841 times)

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Offline RickyJim

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #150 on: October 18, 2012, 10:05:37 AM »
Also recall that in his nterview with the local Fox station the afternoon after the shooting, W6 asserts that "the guy on the bottom who I beleive had a red sweater on was yelling to me help, help." Zimmerman has also claimed that he was yelling directly to W6 for help.

Early in his FDLE interview W#6 says that he just assumed the guy on the bottom would be the one yelling but he never could see his mouth move.  Late in the interview he gave the echo explanation for his judgment.  So a cross examiner might be able to do some impeachment here.  That is why I think the defense should do some testing to see just how obvious an effect this is.  Does anybody know if W#6 still lives there?

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #151 on: October 18, 2012, 11:01:25 AM »
Also recall that in his nterview with the local Fox station the afternoon after the shooting, W6 asserts that "the guy on the bottom who I believe had a red sweater on was yelling to me help, help." Zimmerman has also claimed that he was yelling directly to W6 for help.

pg. 23 of the 284
O'Steen interview with Smith.

Quote
Smith handcuffed Zimmerman for safety reasons.  Zimmerman uttered "I was yelling for help but no one would help me."  Zimmerman complained that he had a headache and that his head was hurting.  Rescue checked Zimmerman at the scene.

The order is a little different from the original write up by Smith, IIRC.  In that one, Smith said that he overheard Zimmerman tell EMTs that he was yelling for help and no one would help him.  I tried to find the page number but my eyes glazed...sorry.


Offline FromBelow

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #152 on: October 18, 2012, 12:32:15 PM »
Early in his FDLE interview W#6 says that he just assumed the guy on the bottom would be the one yelling but he never could see his mouth move.

That's a reasonable thing to think. I've never seen a fight where the guy on top was yelling for help. Has anyone?

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #153 on: October 18, 2012, 01:15:50 PM »
Recreating the scene acoustically and having Zimmerman scream for John could lead to interesting results.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #154 on: October 18, 2012, 01:20:18 PM »
That's a reasonable thing to think. I've never seen a fight where the guy on top was yelling for help. Has anyone?

 ;D  I certainly haven't but there are internet discussion groups and blogs of people claiming that happened here.  Or else they denounce W#6 as being a liar who has recanted his testimony 10 times or is mistaken.  I think they suggest that Martin could be screaming for his Mom (yes, I have seen people claiming they hear that  :o) while trying to pin Zimmerman's hand with the gun down.  BDLR may come up with stuff along the aforementioned lines at tomorrow's hearing.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #155 on: October 18, 2012, 03:47:36 PM »
;D  I certainly haven't but there are internet discussion groups and blogs of people claiming that happened here.  Or else they denounce W#6 as being a liar who has recanted his testimony 10 times or is mistaken.  I think they suggest that Martin could be screaming for his Mom (yes, I have seen people claiming they hear that  :o) while trying to pin Zimmerman's hand with the gun down.  BDLR may come up with stuff along the aforementioned lines at tomorrow's hearing.

Since I think this will get deleted, along with yours for being too gossipy, I will have to add....

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

They gotz better ears and equipment than the FBI, yanno? 

I have to work tomorrow so I am hoping for video links.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #156 on: October 19, 2012, 02:33:55 AM »
Has anybody seen this issue discussed before anywhere?

Redbrow mentioned it briefly, earlier in this thread.

I checked the blog and didn't find anything. Redbrow's comment may have been what I was thinking of.

Offline unitron

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #157 on: October 19, 2012, 06:08:56 PM »
Has anyone brought this up previously?  Starting at 38 minutes in of John's (Witness #6) FDLE interview, he gives the best evidence I have heard to date about who was screaming. He says that with Martin and Zimmerman perpendicular to him, with Martin on the top and Zimmerman on the bottom, so that Martin was facing away from him, he heard a very clear direct "help!" that did not sound like an echo off the town houses across the dogwalk, which is what you would expect if Martin was yelling.

The human voice, in free air, is not a laser beam.  It (or rather the acoustic wave form it causes, the compression and rarefaction of the medium, in this case the atmosphere) spreads out from the point source in all directions.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #158 on: October 20, 2012, 07:30:03 AM »
The human voice, in free air, is not a laser beam.  It (or rather the acoustic wave form it causes, the compression and rarefaction of the medium, in this case the atmosphere) spreads out from the point source in all directions.

Yes, but doesn't mean that the acoustic waves received by somebody standing where W#6 was won't differ depending on whether the screamer was facing the houses on the other side or W#6.  In the former case, the reflected components should have a higher amplitude leading to a much more noticeable echo.  Of course this should be tested before an attempt is made to introduce it as evidence.  I have a hunch that W#6's opinion came from his own experience, hearing his own echo when shouting to his neighbor across the dog walk.

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #159 on: October 20, 2012, 01:26:59 PM »
Yes, but doesn't mean that the acoustic waves received by somebody standing where W#6 was won't differ depending on whether the screamer was facing the houses on the other side or W#6.  In the former case, the reflected components should have a higher amplitude leading to a much more noticeable echo.  Of course this should be tested before an attempt is made to introduce it as evidence.  I have a hunch that W#6's opinion came from his own experience, hearing his own echo when shouting to his neighbor across the dog walk.
If GZ was on his back at the time of the screaming, wouldn't he be mainly facing the sky rather than either W6's house or the house opposite? It seems like this would make the sound of the voice of the person in this position even less echo-y than a person facing either row of houses.

But just like IANAL, I am also not a sound expert.

However, I agree about the logic of W6's potential familiarity of hearing his own voice echo in various positions in that area between the townhouses and not recognizing that quality in the calls for help, thus being confident it was the person on the bottom screaming even though he couldn't see mouths.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 01:29:11 PM by Evil Chinchilla »

Offline unitron

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #160 on: October 20, 2012, 02:16:12 PM »
Yes, but doesn't mean that the acoustic waves received by somebody standing where W#6 was won't differ depending on whether the screamer was facing the houses on the other side or W#6.  In the former case, the reflected components should have a higher amplitude leading to a much more noticeable echo.  Of course this should be tested before an attempt is made to introduce it as evidence.  I have a hunch that W#6's opinion came from his own experience, hearing his own echo when shouting to his neighbor across the dog walk.

Both parties were facing each other more than either was facing anyone or anything else other than the ground or the sky, so acoustic energy from either of them traveling parallel to the ground would be roughly the same in all compass directions.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #161 on: October 20, 2012, 04:04:24 PM »
Both parties were facing each other more than either was facing anyone or anything else other than the ground or the sky, so acoustic energy from either of them traveling parallel to the ground would be roughly the same in all compass directions.

He is describing just one of the "helps!" with Martin on top, straddling Zimmerman and facing the houses across the walk and Zimmerman facing in W#6's direction.  A claim that there would be no difference in the received sounds produced from each position goes against common experience and apparently W#6's experience from living there.  Are you arguing it isn't worth checking out?

Offline unitron

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #162 on: October 23, 2012, 02:20:13 PM »
He is describing just one of the "helps!" with Martin on top, straddling Zimmerman and facing the houses across the walk and Zimmerman facing in W#6's direction.  A claim that there would be no difference in the received sounds produced from each position goes against common experience and apparently W#6's experience from living there.  Are you arguing it isn't worth checking out?

I'd love to see it actually tested instead of people just making assumptions.


Offline MJW

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #163 on: December 03, 2012, 01:35:38 PM »
In a motion by O'Mara asking for a second deposition of police investigator William Erwin, the defense says Erwin was a witness to Tracy Martin telling Serino that the screams in the 911 call are not Trayvon's.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #164 on: May 05, 2013, 08:01:11 PM »
Apparently MOM is going to try and disallow any experts from testifying about who is screaming. Apparently the experts have differing opinions even within both camps. He suggests just letting the jury decide. This is apparently the big hearing he was talking about during the April 30th hearing.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/04/30/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-cries-help

 

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