Author Topic: Who is screaming on the 911 call?  (Read 52503 times)

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Offline MJW

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #165 on: May 05, 2013, 08:16:02 PM »
Apparently MOM is going to try and disallow any experts from testifying about who is screaming.

I wasn't quite certain if he was saying no experts, or no anybody.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #166 on: May 05, 2013, 08:26:23 PM »
I wasn't quite certain if he was saying no experts, or no anybody.

Maybe he'll try to exclude all witnesses.

His last statement in that clip seems to suggest he thinks excluding witness (expert) testimony is a done deal. "We seem like we're not going to have experts on either side." Maybe defense and state have discussed the issue? Maybe he's just confident? Although if state and defense have discussed it and are in agreement I can't imagine why there needs to be a big hearing about it.

Offline MJW

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #167 on: May 05, 2013, 08:45:10 PM »
It's difficult to see what the jury would learn by having a bunch of Martin's friends and family insisting it was Martin, and a bunch of Zimmerman's friends and family insisting it was Zimmerman. How could they weigh such evidence?

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #168 on: May 05, 2013, 08:52:01 PM »
Apparently MOM is going to try and disallow any experts from testifying about who is screaming. Apparently the experts have differing opinions even within both camps. He suggests just letting the jury decide. This is apparently the big hearing he was talking about during the April 30th hearing.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/04/30/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-cries-help
I couldn't tell if O'mara was telling the truth in the interview.  I find it hard to believe he is surprised that a bunch of "experts" offering opinions on the identity of the screamer can't come to a consensus.  The way I read the FBI report by Dr. Nakasone on the tape, anybody who claims they can scientifically specify who is screaming from the tape evidence alone is a fraud.   

I told O'Mara a long while ago that he should have an expert check if there was a distinct echo to differentiate somebody screaming while facing the houses across the walk from W #6's lawn from somebody facing W #6.  I have no idea whether or not he followed up on that.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #169 on: May 06, 2013, 03:03:02 AM »
It's difficult to see what the jury would learn by having a bunch of Martin's friends and family insisting it was Martin, and a bunch of Zimmerman's friends and family insisting it was Zimmerman.

As I recall, at least two of the witnesses who have identified Zimmerman's voice are neighbors who haven't regularly socialized with the Zimmermans, so not 'friends' in the relevant sense.

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How could they weigh such evidence?

The same way they weigh any testimony. They listen to and observe the witnesses as they are being examined. They may, or may not, find one side or the other more credible.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #170 on: May 06, 2013, 03:08:22 AM »
I told O'Mara a long while ago that he should have an expert check if there was a distinct echo

Yes, you have been beating this drum for a while. I don't recall if anyone else has expressed any interest.

I doubt more than one or two jurors would find it persuasive. Hardly worth expending limited funds.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #171 on: May 06, 2013, 03:09:43 AM »
I wasn't quite certain if he was saying no experts, or no anybody.

On the video, the 'journalist' as usual didn't bother with a follow-up question to clarify that.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #172 on: May 06, 2013, 03:15:12 AM »
Although if state and defense have discussed it and are in agreement I can't imagine why there needs to be a big hearing about it.

Right.

I also can't imagine why the prosecutors would want to make the concession. It would free up funds for the defense to use for experts in other areas.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #173 on: May 06, 2013, 06:17:48 AM »
Yes, you have been beating this drum for a while. I don't recall if anyone else has expressed any interest.

I doubt more than one or two jurors would find it persuasive. Hardly worth expending limited funds.
If I were on the jury, I would find Witness #6's testimony on this point, if verified by tests, very persuasive but I would dismiss the testimony of every friend and relative that says they could identify the screams as their guy.  À chacun son goût.   :D

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #174 on: May 06, 2013, 06:34:20 AM »
If I were on the jury

You have made your opinion clear.

My point, is that the actual jurors may not agree with you.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #175 on: May 06, 2013, 07:34:10 AM »

Offline cboldt

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #176 on: May 06, 2013, 07:48:43 AM »
The defense filed a motion for an evidentiary hearing.

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/court-documents/157-motion-for-evidentiary-hearing

The motion requests an evidentiary hearing as to admissibility of voice ID experts that the state intends to call.  I wonder if these are the same experts that the state listed as "C" witnesses in its initial disclosure to the defense, and assume that these are NOT the same experts, but rather are different ones.  The state surely isn't going to call the FBI experts, who concluded that they could not reach a conclusion on the available evidence.

O'Mara suggests that the point of the hearing will be to find whether or not the methodology used by the state's experts is considered reliable by the scientific community.  This is the Frye test, named after the Frye v. United States 293 F. 1013 (D.C. Cir. 1923) case, that precludes admissibility of lie detector and similar stress tests as evidence of the truth of what is being said by the subject.

I wonder if the state will produce a reverse image of O'Mara's motion, seeking to strike admission of any defense experts on the issue of voice ID.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #177 on: May 06, 2013, 07:55:03 AM »
More pragmatically excluding voice experts saves the defense some cash. The state also has unlimited resources and can pile on experts and sway the jury's opinion by numbers alone. Keep in mind when not objecting to MOM adding witnesses after the deadline (April 30th hearing) the state reserved the right to do the same. IMO & IANAL.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #178 on: May 06, 2013, 08:02:02 AM »
In the motion, O'Mara doesn't say he has any experts in the wings and it seems to me that the point of the Frye hearing is to prevent any of the prosecution experts from testifying.  Over a year ago Dr. James Wayman of San Jose State volunteered to be a witness against admitting the testimony of Tom Owen, one of the Orlando Sentinel Experts.  IMHO, the prosecution is really desperate to try to introduce any of the BS from Owen, Primeau or kindred spirits after previously indicating they wouldn't be called.

Offline cboldt

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Re: Who is screaming on the 911 call?
« Reply #179 on: May 06, 2013, 08:02:58 AM »
More pragmatically excluding voice experts saves the defense some cash. The state also has unlimited resources and can pile on experts and sway the jury's opinion by numbers alone. Keep in mind when not objecting to MOM adding witnesses after the deadline (April 30th hearing) the state reserved the right to do the same. IMO & IANAL.

I have the impression that the defense has already sunk some cash into voice ID experts, and the incremental cost of having them appear at trial isn't enough to decide to keep them out.  OTOH, if your own experts are unwilling to produce an unequivocal opinion, THAT, ALONE, would be enough to choose to keep them off the stand.

I do agree that in a battle of experts, having numbers helps.  If more experts support your side, it's (in principle) a finding that the evidence admits a reliable conclusion, as most experts reach the same conclusion.  Another factor that gives an expert credibility is having credentials, and the FBI experts rendered an opinion.  It happens to be an opinion that the state doesn't like, but there it is.

At any rate, I don't think O'Mara's motion is driven by cost; but it may be.  It may be that he hasn't been able to find or afford a hired gun expert who will take a side opposite the state's expert, and his only option in a battle of experts is to knock out the state's expert.  O'Mara may have an expert who takes a position similar to that of the FBI, and that expert would be useful to knock out the state's expert or experts.

 

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