Author Topic: For The "On Board" Lawyers  (Read 5324 times)

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Offline DebFrmHell

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For The "On Board" Lawyers
« on: July 28, 2012, 03:47:50 AM »
In a trial, an acquittal would mean that there is not enough evidence to convict.  Reasonable doubt.

What does it take to be proven innocent of the charges?  Can that only be done during a SYG hearing?

Offline cboldt

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Re: For The "On Board" Lawyers
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2012, 04:37:18 AM »
The Dennis hearing for 776.032 immunity uses a probability scale of about 50-50.  If it's more likely that his action was justified, then Zimmerman is granted immunity.  The standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence, same as used in a civil trial.

Most people would not consider that to have sufficient certainty to say "proof of innocence," in the common use of those words.

A declaration by the state, of innocence, is the closest you'll get to proof of innocence.  That is different from dropping the charges.  I'm thinking about statements made, e.g., when DNA evidence exonerates.  Or the Duke rape case, where the accuser and prosecutor were eventually proven wrong.

I've said before, in this case, if there was a movie that corroborated Zimmerman's account, a significant number of people will find him guilty.  He got out of his truck.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Proof Evident, Presumption Great
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2012, 05:02:33 AM »
He got out of his truck.

And Trayvon wore a hoodie.

And he had candy, for his little not-brother.

Offline JW

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Re: For The "On Board" Lawyers
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2012, 05:26:24 AM »



"He got out of his truck"....really? Wow, if that's all there is then there is no case against him.

Offline Lousy1

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The case seems thin - but how much of the damage is irreversible?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2012, 07:04:44 AM »


"He got out of his truck"....really? Wow, if that's all there is then there is no case against him.

He also PROFILED Martin.  Called the police. 
Additionally  Mr. Zimmerman was disturbing the peace with all that unseemly screaming for help

IMO There are some segments of the population that are so involved in their own meta narratives that no amount of evidence or reasoning will dispel their initial judgments.

Assuming the criminal case is a fizzle, then its important that GZ avoiding losing a civil suit. He has two options  a hearing for 776.032 immunity or winning the expected suit outright. Seems that those are his best shot at vindication - or as much as he's going to get.

I am unsure of his chances to sue some of the participants in his persecution. Perhaps if a bombshell hits - for instance if DeeDee admits to someone illegally influencing her statements then GZ has a case

Then again IANAL

 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 07:06:39 AM by Lousy1 »

Offline Jujube

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Re: The case seems thin - but how much of the damage is irreversible?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2012, 03:22:01 PM »
IMO There are some segments of the population that are so involved in their own meta narratives that no amount of evidence or reasoning will dispel their initial judgments.


Unfortunately, this goes both ways. 

Offline Lousy1

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Re: The case seems thin - but how much of the damage is irreversible?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 03:41:36 PM »
Unfortunately, this goes both ways.

True, but the lack of understanding of the evidence and the law seems to be a hallmark of many Zimmerman detractors.
That may be just because the facts, as they have been developed, don't meet the spectacular meta narrative that launched this case into the public eye. Since many prejudged the facts,  didn't understand the law, and concluded that 'Justice' required Zimmerman be held to account for Trayvon's death this intellectual intolerance is not all the surprising - just a bit disappointing.

On the other hand perusing other sites, indicates that some of the ( diminishing ?) crowd of white supremacists find the case as a pulpit to display bigotry and ignorance. Others are quick to label evidence as fact before it is vetted.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 03:48:29 PM by Lousy1 »

Offline Redbrow

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Re: The case seems thin - but how much of the damage is irreversible?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012, 06:17:03 PM »
True, but the lack of understanding of the evidence and the law seems to be a hallmark of many Zimmerman detractors.
That may be just because the facts, as they have been developed, don't meet the spectacular meta narrative that launched this case into the public eye. Since many prejudged the facts,  didn't understand the law, and concluded that 'Justice' required Zimmerman be held to account for Trayvon's death this intellectual intolerance is not all the surprising - just a bit disappointing.

On the other hand perusing other sites, indicates that some of the ( diminishing ?) crowd of white supremacists find the case as a pulpit to display bigotry and ignorance. Others are quick to label evidence as fact before it is vetted.

Do you have any links to these alleged "diminishing crowds of white supremacists?" I am curious to see how you profiled these sites and posters.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: The case seems thin - but how much of the damage is irreversible?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 07:18:02 PM »
Do you have any links to these alleged "diminishing crowds of white supremacists?" I am curious to see how you profiled these sites and posters.

Look on YouTube,  Yahoo or other un-moderated sites. I am not referring to posters on moderated sites. Of course we can only guess at the race or political leanings of the authors. However if I had to bet there are some self identified white supremacist, lowbrows spewing hate.
Diminishing numbers is just my personal observation over the last 30 years or so.

Of course, on those and other sites,  there  are virulent Zimmerman haters ( and  even some overt racists like the NBPP) whose rhetoric is at least as bad.

I definitely do not believe that posters on this site exhibit any of that rhetoric - from either extreme.



Offline TalkLeft

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Re: For The "On Board" Lawyers
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2012, 08:51:59 PM »
Please do not post links to such sites here. And this is not a matter related to the topic of the thread, so please end this discussion.

Offline Redbrow

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Re: For The "On Board" Lawyers
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2012, 09:22:54 PM »
Please do not post links to such sites here. And this is not a matter related to the topic of the thread, so please end this discussion.
No worries. I doubt such links exist. I don't think it is fair to make such specious claims without backing it up with evidence.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 09:28:16 PM by Redbrow »

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: For The "On Board" Lawyers
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2012, 09:41:52 PM »
No worries. I doubt such links exist. I don't think it is fair to make such specious claims without backing it up with evidence.

Oh, they are there.  Nasty stuff.   I have seen it on the other side, too.  It amazes me how much hate there is about this case one way or the other. 

I have now labeled myself as The Radical Middle.

 

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