Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 66007 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #120 on: January 30, 2013, 09:10:13 AM »
My impression is that before the housing bubble burst, TRTL was an expensive place which was well maintained. 

I've seen a number of news reports saying The Retreat was hit hard by the housing collapse. So, yes, the units were more expensive before then. I don't recall anything about quality of maintenance.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #121 on: January 30, 2013, 10:12:17 AM »
I think it is clear he was on RVC at the clubhouse at the start.He still seems to be there a minute into the call.But after a minute and a half you hear noises suggesting car movement, a complaint about assholes always getting away (implying he was not just going to let this asshole get away by sitting in the clubhouse parking lot) and 10 seconds later he does try to give directions to the where the car (presumably) was parked on TTL.

There was no such implication, only an inference by a biased listener. Kindly refrain.

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #122 on: January 30, 2013, 11:22:31 AM »
I disagree. It's by a biased source. It is filled with assumptions and personal observations rather than fact, and bases its conclusions on suppositions.  I didn't watch the whole thing but the little I saw claims George didn't pull in front of the clubhouse,  based on the author's subjective interpretation of the clubhouse videos.

I'll ask again  that you not bring material from biased internet speculators here.

Is it even possible for any interpretation of the clubhouse videos to be non-subjective?

It seems pretty much unavoidable that it's a Plato's Cave situation.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #123 on: January 30, 2013, 11:55:24 AM »
Nonsense. Zimmerman didn't say a word about his own location.

True, but what would be the advantage to lie about it later?  Similarly lying about seeing Martin acting suspiciously in front of Taafe's house?  Zimmerman gives the following on the third Serino tape when they played the NEN call for him:
Quote
(plays tape 0:39 to 0:48)
Singleton: Can you just pause that for a minute? OK, when you explained it to me, you said you had pulled over initially at the clubhouse, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: Now you’re saying he’s coming up to your car. Does that mean you’ve already, at this point in the tape, you’re already on Twin Tree, the street you didn’t know the name of at the time?
Zimmerman: Um, no, I was on, I called when I was at the clubhouse.
Singleton: OK, but he’s walking up to your car now, right?
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton:  On the tape. Cause you’re saying he’s walking up.
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: You’re talking about when you’ve already left the clubhouse and now you’re on the corner.
Zimmerman: No, ma’am. I’m at the clubhouse.
...
(plays tape 1:03 to 1:16)
Singleton: Have you moved yet?
Zimmerman: I don’t think so.
Singleton: You’re still in front of the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: I think so.
...
(plays tape 1:20 to 1:28)
Singleton: OK, where are you at now? Are you still in front of the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: I don’t remember.
...
(plays tape 1:34 to 1:50)
Serino: What’s happening now? Are you guys walking now, is he walking?
Zimmerman: No, that’s, I was parked where I could see him now.
Serino: So you’re…
Singleton: OK, so you’re definitely not in front of the clubhouse any more, at this point?
Zimmerman: No.
The last No means, I am not in front of the clubhouse.  Do the laws of physics allow him to get from parking lot to cut through between 1:16 and 1:50?

I listened to his previous NEN calls with amazement.  There is no sign of the him acting impulsively and trying to keep the supposed perps in view.  He seems to be quite content in meeting the cops at the back entrance and letting them do the searching.  So what got into him on 2/26/12?  :o

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #124 on: January 30, 2013, 11:59:01 AM »
My impression is that before the housing bubble burst, TRTL was an expensive place which was well maintained.  Can anybody confirm or refute?

You can't maintain a fence that was never installed in the first place.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #125 on: January 30, 2013, 12:04:37 PM »
I have not listened to any of the GZ's other NEN calls.  Was he in his vehicle when he made these other calls?  Did the dispatcher make requests asking GZ to let him know if the suspect does anything or ask which whey they were running?

Offline AghastInFL

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #126 on: January 30, 2013, 12:13:07 PM »
What's the point of having a gated community where you can walk into half of the back yards right off the main drag?
The gates are intended to limit public access and vehicular traffic, they are not meant as a secure lockdown; Secure neighborhoods have guards. Many neighborhoods here in Florida are similarly built and in most pedestrians have unrestricted access it is common to see unfenced areas such as TRATL.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #127 on: January 30, 2013, 12:22:30 PM »
I have not listened to any of the GZ's other NEN calls.  Was he in his vehicle when he made these other calls?  Did the dispatcher make requests asking GZ to let him know if the suspect does anything or ask which whey they were running?
They are all much shorter than the 2/26 call.  It is not clear if he was in his car or not.  Are you trying to blame Sean Nofke for this incident?  >:( I think "We don't need you to do that." should have abrogated any silly idea that Zimmerman might have had in his head that he was supposed to run into the dark to keep Martin in view.  There was nothing about hunting for an address on the previous tapes.  Zimmerman was very take charge about where the cops should meet him.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 12:27:15 PM by RickyJim »

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #128 on: January 30, 2013, 12:58:13 PM »
I don't blame the dispatcher for anything that occurred (though I'd bet  that team Crump will do just that at some point after GZ's case is closed).  Sean was doing what good dispatchers should do which is gather as much information as he can and keep the caller calm.  I merely suggest that GZ was asked to help the police on this call and I wonder if previous dispatchers asked for such help. 

I'm sure we are all aware of this, but the "we don't need you to do that" comment came after GZ was out of his vehicle and presumably somewhere around the 'T'.  IS there any evidence that GZ ran into the dark to keep view on TM after this statement was made?  Sure doesn't sound like it for the last 2 minutes of the NEN call.

On the other calls with GZ agreeing to meet cops by the back entrance, were the suspects still in view or had they already fled? 

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #129 on: January 30, 2013, 01:52:57 PM »
"We don't need to do that." came 15 seconds after Zimmerman left the truck, probably not enough time to have reached the T.  After that he kept moving ahead in the dark to the T and RVC to get the address the dispatcher hadn't asked for, etc.   I would be interested in hearing opinions from others on whether they, like me, find a totally different Zimmerman, as far as what a neighborhood watchman is supposed to do, on the 2/26 call as compared to the previous ones.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #130 on: January 30, 2013, 01:56:18 PM »
I have not listened to any of the GZ's other NEN calls.

I suggest you listen to the four suspicious person calls I linked. As RJ says, they aren't long.

Quote
Did the dispatcher make requests asking GZ to let him know if the suspect does anything or ask which whey they were running?

10/1/11 Two men loitering in a car.
Quote
Dispatcher: Can you still see them?

Zimmerman: No, ma'am. I didn't want to attract attention.

2/2/12 Suspicious man at 1460 RVC.

The dispatcher asked 'And what is he doing?' Zimmerman gave a long reply, in the middle of which he said 'I don't want to approach him, personally.'

Listening to the 2/2 call, I feel it's a very different story from the one Zimmerman told Serino and Singleton about the same incident. It's like the NEN call that way.

Zimmerman told the investigators he was walking his dog at time of the 2/2 call (2/29-1, 4:36-5:02).

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #131 on: January 30, 2013, 02:05:17 PM »
I would be interested in hearing opinions from others on whether they, like me, find a totally different Zimmerman, as far as what a neighborhood watchman is supposed to do, on the 2/26 call as compared to the previous ones.

2/26-1, 9:51-10:03
Quote
Zimmerman: I had called before, and the police had come out. But, these guys know the neighborhood very well, and they would cut in between buildings and lose -

Singleton: You're saying "these guys." Who are "these guys"?

Zimmerman: The people coming in, the burglars.

I think Zimmerman felt that doing it by the book wasn't working. Maybe he decided, even before that night, to try a new approach.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #132 on: January 30, 2013, 02:16:11 PM »
2/26-1, 9:51-10:03
I think Zimmerman felt that doing it by the book wasn't working. Maybe he decided, even before that night, to try a new approach.

I doubt that.  Once a leopard, always a leopard.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #133 on: January 30, 2013, 02:28:37 PM »
Once a leopard, always a leopard.

Old dogs can learn new tricks. The adage is a myth.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #134 on: January 30, 2013, 02:41:20 PM »
"We don't need to do that." came 15 seconds after Zimmerman left the truck, probably not enough time to have reached the T.  After that he kept moving ahead in the dark to the T and RVC to get the address the dispatcher hadn't asked for, etc.   I would be interested in hearing opinions from others on whether they, like me, find a totally different Zimmerman, as far as what a neighborhood watchman is supposed to do, on the 2/26 call as compared to the previous ones.

About 19 seconds if you count until GZ says OK.  Depends how close he was to the corner in TTL.  At an average walking pace, he would have covered about 55 feet.  Walking briskly maybe 90-100 feet.  I did say around the 'T", not at the 'T".  If I had to try and nail it down, I think he got to the T and got his first good look down the dog walk about the time he says "He ran" which is 8-9 seconds later.

I think the top of the 'T' was somewhat illuminated by his truck lights (until they shut off automatically) and the lights on TTL.  I personally wouldn't call walking along the top of the 'T'  running into the dark after TM, since according to GZ, TM ran down the dog walk, not to RVC.

As for the address, GZ and the dispatcher were discussing directions to where he was when the conversation was interrupted by TM running.  Then before hanging up, the dispatcher asks "where are you going to meet them at" and asked "what address are you parked in front of".  The dispatcher did ask for an address and GZ didn't have one for his vehicle.  He says he decided to get the nearest one he had.

I don't have the chance to listen to the calls now, but will when I can.  From the responses I've gotten, GZ wasn't in his vehicle on the other occasions and there weren't any instructions from dispatchers to let them know if the suspects did anything or asking him where they were running.

 

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