Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 63560 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #135 on: January 30, 2013, 03:14:56 PM »
From the responses I've gotten, GZ wasn't in his vehicle on the other occasions and there weren't any instructions from dispatchers to let them know if the suspects did anything or asking him where they were running.

I don't believe Zimmerman's actions on the night of 2/26 were motivated by the distinction between 'Just let me know if this guy does anything else,' and 'What is he doing?'


Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #136 on: January 30, 2013, 04:16:45 PM »
2/26-1, 9:51-10:03
I think Zimmerman felt that doing it by the book wasn't working. Maybe he decided, even before that night, to try a new approach.
During the third 2/29 tape:
Quote
Singleton: Didnít you just tell us in there that a week earlier they made an arrest?
Zimmerman: Yes, maíam.
Singleton: So they donít always get away.
Zimmerman: No.
Serino: Good point.
I can't find Zimmerman talking about an arrest the previous week.  Was it off mike?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #137 on: January 31, 2013, 12:44:28 AM »
I can't find Zimmerman talking about an arrest the previous week. 

Zimmerman said the man he saw at 1460 RVC on 2/2 committed a burglary a week later, and was eventually arrested for it (2/29-1, 7:18-40). I think that's what Serino had in mind.

Zimmerman might have been more specific about the arrest date off mike, but I think Serino just had a jumbled recollection of Zimmerman using the word 'week'. It didn't really matter if the arrest was a week before or two weeks before.

This part is interesting.

2/29-1, 7:31-38
Quote
But one of the maintenance guys saw him, and was able to give the police a direction of where he was going.

Inspiration?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #138 on: January 31, 2013, 03:23:02 AM »
From the responses I've gotten, GZ wasn't in his vehicle on the other occasions and there weren't any instructions from dispatchers to let them know if the suspects did anything or asking him where they were running.

It sounds like you think Zimmerman is a Manchurian Candidate, who is triggered into action by an exact set of words.

I think the best analogy for 2/26/12 is 10/1/11 (p. 42 of the logs), the two men loitering in a car. Before the dispatcher asked if Zimmerman could see the men, she asked if had gotten the plate number, which he had not.

If Zimmerman's disposition on 10/1/11 had been the same as on 2/26/12, he would have gone to get the plate number, and 'keep an eye' on the loitering men.

I suppose we must agree to disagree on whether 'Which way is he running?' is reasonably interpretable as 'follow him and report on future changes in direction'. I can only say that in 50+ years before now, I've never heard such an expression interpreted in such a way.

But if the dispatcher saying those particular words was the crucial motivating factor, why didn't Zimmerman ever say so? Zimmerman didn't mention Martin running until Singleton asked him about it. Even then, Zimmerman stuck to the story of the Great Address Hunt.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #139 on: January 31, 2013, 07:21:56 AM »
I think the dispatchers words played a part in GZ's actions that evening (you forgot to mention "which way is he running" right before GZ exited his vehicle).  I also think that crime was an issue in the neighborhood and that guys were getting away also played a part in GZ's actions.  I don't believe GZ wanted any sort of confrontation with TM or he would have gotten out of his vehicle as TM approached or walked near by, not after TM ran out of sight.  I think its possible GZ strayed from the top of the 'T' to try to locate TM, though I see no evidence to contradict his assertion that he didn't.  I find the narrative that GZ prevented TM from returning home or that he was able to force a confrontation with him in an open area impossible to believe unless TM was impaired by drugs.

On the 10/1 incident, was GZ in a vehicle or on foot and did the dispatcher ask him to get a plate number?

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #140 on: January 31, 2013, 08:28:33 AM »
But if the dispatcher saying those particular words was the crucial motivating factor, why didn't Zimmerman ever say so? Zimmerman didn't mention Martin running until Singleton asked him about it. Even then, Zimmerman stuck to the story of the Great Address Hunt.

Do you have a picture showing Zimmerman's most probable location when he told the dispatcher "Okay" in reply to "We don't need you to do that."?  If he parked where he told Singleton, I think he would be only a few feet in from TTL on the cut through, not even near yet to the front of the houses of the witnesses who lived on TTL, let alone the T.  This makes his story of having to go to RVC to get an address or leftwig's belief that he still felt obligated to the dispatcher to look for Martin, even more ridiculous.

And this from the first 2/29 interview where he was describing the 2/2 incident:
Quote
Zimmerman: And, ah, so I walked past him and I called non-emergency, and, ah, I got under a streetlight, and they asked me if I could see where he went, where he went inside the house and I said, no. And they said,  can you get to where you can see and I said, I really donít want to move closer. Um, oh, and they needed the address. And I donít know why, adrenalin was rushing, a thousand things went through my mind. I gave them what I thought was my address

He got it right when he said he told the dispatcher Rene, on 2/2 that he didn't want to move closer.  He might have given his address early in the second redacted part of the audio.  But this clearly shows a different Nightwatch Captain Zimmerman.  And the fact that the perp was arrested between 2/2 and 2/29 makes the change in behavior even harder to understand.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #141 on: January 31, 2013, 09:35:54 AM »
On the 2/2 call, I think I hear some interesting Zimmerman directions:
Quote
If you have an officer available, I'd probably have him stop on Reinhardt across the street from Walter Reed's Bentley and go around the back".
Does this accurately describe the street outside TRTL near Taafe's house?  Apparently Zimmerman was also better at remembering street names three weeks earlier.   :D

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #142 on: January 31, 2013, 10:09:42 AM »
On the 2/2 call, I think I hear some interesting Zimmerman directions:Does this accurately describe the street outside TRTL near Taafe's house?  Apparently Zimmerman was also better at remembering street names three weeks earlier.   :D

Those directions are interesting, in that if some guy named Walter Reed has a Bentley dealership in Sanford Google doesn't seem to find it.

Also, the street outside RaTL closest to ol' Frank's place is Oregon Ave.

Reinhart doesn't get all that close to the neighborhood, especially not the back gate part, at least if I can believe the Google map.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #143 on: January 31, 2013, 11:13:56 AM »
On the 10/1 incident, was GZ in a vehicle or on foot

I don't know. Why would that matter?

He indicated that before calling he had moved to a place out of sight from the loiterers. He may have gone into the clubhouse.

Quote
and did the dispatcher ask him to get a plate number?

She did not, just as Noffke did not ask Zimmerman to get out of his truck and follow Martin.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #144 on: January 31, 2013, 11:30:07 AM »
Those directions are interesting, in that if some guy named Walter Reed has a Bentley dealership in Sanford Google doesn't seem to find it.

There's Evolution Auto, 1300 Rinehart Rd.

It's a long way from RATL.

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #145 on: January 31, 2013, 11:56:35 AM »
It sounds like you think Zimmerman is a Manchurian Candidate, who is triggered into action by an exact set of words.

If I said that, you'd accuse me of using a strawman.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #146 on: January 31, 2013, 11:57:41 AM »
On the 2/2 call, I think I hear some interesting Zimmerman directions:
Quote
If you have an officer available, I'd probably have him stop on Reinhardt across the street from Walter Reed's Bentley and go around the back".

Does this accurately describe the street outside TRTL near Taafe's house? 

It seems like Zimmerman was directing the officer to enter by cutting across Colonial Village Apts., which is between RATL and Rinehart Rd. There are two businesses across Rinehart Rd. from Colonial Village, a Car Max Auto Superstore, and a motorcycle shop called Seminole Power Sports. One of them could have replaced the Walter Reed's.

If Zimmerman meant what he said, he was setting that cop up for a long walk.

The only business in the area on Oregon Ave. is Kohl's. Across Oregon Ave. from Kohl's would be in Colonial Village, fairly close to Taaffe's home.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #147 on: January 31, 2013, 12:37:09 PM »
If Zimmerman meant what he said, he was setting that cop up for a long walk.

Zimmerman might have meant for the officer to drive into and through Colonial Village. There's a Colonial Village parking area close to Taaffe's home. See here and here.

But the entrance to Colonial Village is on Oregon Ave. The businesses across Rinehart Rd. are opposite the back of the complex.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #148 on: January 31, 2013, 01:05:53 PM »
He might have given his address early in the second redacted part of the audio.

Zimmerman didn't give his own address, 1950, on that occasion. He gave an address one digit off from his, 1960, and later called again to correct it to 1460. Audio of the second call doesn't seem to be available, but it is included in the same Event Report (p. 45).

The Event Report has 1960 as the incident location.

The last time we discussed these calls, Jeralyn posted an unredacted transcript of 2/2. Later I'll take the time to find it.

I'm puzzled at what the point of your statement is. It seems like an irrelevant observation dropped into the middle of the paragraph.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #149 on: January 31, 2013, 01:11:25 PM »
Reinhart doesn't get all that close to the neighborhood, especially not the back gate part, at least if I can believe the Google map.

This is the Taaffe incident, 2/2/12. The one involving the back gate is the one about two suspects from a previous burglary, 8/6/11.

 

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