Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 48483 times)

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Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2012, 12:39:07 PM »
No question she is hard to understand and I don't discount several other factors that would affect her narrative (not the greatest memory, event occurred 5 weeks earlier, lots of public statements and conjecture on the subject).  I was just commenting from the perspective that she offers a timeline and activities that can be compared and contrasted with GZ's account as well as the other witnesses.  The prosecution seems to want to accept her narrative as the most accurate evidence available.  They seem to accept her version that there was following and a chase without giving weight to her statements that TM lost GZ and was by his fathers house, but stayed outside and walked back to the 'T'.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2012, 12:40:45 PM »
She also says GZ has a deep voice. ;) Dee Dee's use of idioms might be unfamiliar to some but
it's not like she invented it.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120518092601AAkdL34
She speaks in a regional dialect. So do I. Double negatives are perfectly correct in other languages. Many English speakers use them all the time.

Your example doesn't reflect what she said,

She said  he started walking back again.

Your example is someone saying "started back walking."  "started back" is used to describe resuming an activity.  What Dee Dee said, "started walking back again" is not. 

I think her use of "back" is indicating a direction or place he was headed.

Offline IgnatiusJDonnelly

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2012, 12:53:37 PM »
No question she is hard to understand and I don't discount several other factors that would affect her narrative (not the greatest memory, event occurred 5 weeks earlier, lots of public statements and conjecture on the subject).  I was just commenting from the perspective that she offers a timeline and activities that can be compared and contrasted with GZ's account as well as the other witnesses.  The prosecution seems to want to accept her narrative as the most accurate evidence available.  They seem to accept her version that there was following and a chase without giving weight to her statements that TM lost GZ and was by his fathers house, but stayed outside and walked back to the 'T'.
True,
But close is relative. Closer than 7-11 maybe but how close? Only TM would know. We can only speculate.(and debate.  ;) :D)

Offline IgnatiusJDonnelly

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2012, 12:55:16 PM »
Your example doesn't reflect what she said,

She said  he started walking back again.

Your example is someone saying "started back walking."  "started back" is used to describe resuming an activity.  What Dee Dee said, "started walking back again" is not. 

I think her use of "back" is indicating a direction or place he was headed.

I'm guessing MOM will ask her what she meant and we will all be certain.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 12:58:50 PM by IgnatiusJDonnelly »

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2012, 01:24:51 PM »
True,
But close is relative. Closer than 7-11 maybe but how close? Only TM would know. We can only speculate.(and debate.  ;) :D)

Dee Dee never mentions the word "close" that I recall, but says "right by", but I agree it could still be used for a range of distances that are relative in nature.  TM doesn't say he's right by his father's house when he's at the mail area.  He doesn't say he's right by his fathers house after walking past GZ's truck or before he's about to "run from the back".  He only mentions being right by his fathers house after running for a period of time that leaves him out of breath and according to Dee Dee, unable to run and out of sight of GZ.   TM then walked somewhere for a couple of minutes before ending up in a face to face confrontation at the 'T' which happens to be the place he  last saw GZ and a location he ran away from a few minutes earlier.

I didn't address this earlier, but Lee didn't have Dee Dee's account when he proposed his theory.  I believe Lee's theory was that TM ducked around the corner and lay in wait to ambush GZ, not that he was cowering in fear unable to run away from the pudgy Peruvian. 

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2012, 02:12:21 PM »

7:16ish - Dee Dee says a couple of minutes later GZ is following him again.  Dee Dee urges him to run, he says he's not going to, she guesses he's too tired to run because he's talking low, whispering. 

This is confusing two different parts of the narrative. Martin's voice being low was before the 'couple of minutes'.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2012, 03:26:53 PM »
I think it was asked what I make of the word "again".  I think in context it could mean just walking again,

She said 'walking back again', not 'walking again, back'. Whatever she meant by 'back', it was also being repeated.

I think she meant 'back home', as in 'back home from the store', as opposed to 'out to the store'.

Quote
or it could mean headed to the 'T' again.

Dee Dee never said anything about the 'T', by any label or description. The only geographical locations she mentioned were 'his dad's house', the store, and the mail shelter. There was no apparent reason for Martin to be going back to the 7-11 or the mail shelter.

Quote
Dee Dee describes TM by his dad's house, then walking somewhere else while keeping his voice low.

Dee Dee didn't say he was walking somewhere else. That's your interpretation.

I think 'walking back again' most likely meant that Martin was walking on the route to 'his dad's house', as he had been before he briefly ran along the same route.

Dee Dee also didn't comment on the volume of Martin's voice during the 'couple of minutes' that he was presumably continuing to walk. His voice being low may have applied only to the moment that he told her he thought he had lost the man following him.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2012, 03:47:31 PM »
He could have walked from the 'T' to his dad's house in less than a couple of minutes,

There's no evidence that Dee Dee knew that.

Offline Redbrow

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2012, 04:00:35 PM »
There's no evidence that Dee Dee knew that.

Whether DeeDee knew of the T is irrelevant. She confirms Trayvon was out of sight which fits in with GZ losing sight of TM. The area where GZ lost sight is the T.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2012, 04:02:36 PM »
Bill Lee's theory was that TM was just starting to head back to the Greens' when Z reappeared at the T so TM turned around to confront Z. Dee Dee's acct was similar.

It is not.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2012, 04:05:04 PM »
They seem to accept her version that there was following and a chase without giving weight to her statements that TM lost GZ and was by his fathers house, but stayed outside and walked back to the 'T'.

Again you are presenting your interpretations as if they are exactly what Dee Dee said.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2012, 04:08:01 PM »
I'm guessing MOM will ask her what she meant and we will all be certain.

If Dee Dee's next statement includes the "T", I will think she added it to conform with expectations, as I think she did before with the mail shelter.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2012, 05:24:11 PM »
Again you are presenting your interpretations as if they are exactly what Dee Dee said.

He said "seem to", which is different from "they do".

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2012, 05:51:10 PM »
If Dee Dee's next statement includes the "T", I will think she added it to conform with expectations, as I think she did before with the mail shelter.

What expectations are connected to the mail kiosk?

Did anyone other than her mention Martin being there?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2012, 06:35:52 PM »
What expectations are connected to the mail kiosk?

I don't have a cite from before April 3 offhand. My recollection is that the blogs were full of speculation about the mail shelter being the place Martin sheltered from the rain.

We were discussing it on the TalkLeft blog in May, just before the first evidence release.

 

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