Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 71030 times)

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Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #150 on: January 31, 2013, 01:31:23 PM »
I'm puzzled at what the point of your statement is. It seems like an irrelevant observation dropped into the middle of the paragraph.
Zimmerman told Serino he had given out his address on the 2/2 call.  I didn't hear it there so I guessed it my be on a redacted portion.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #151 on: January 31, 2013, 01:48:03 PM »
Zimmerman told Serino he had given out his address on the 2/2 call. 

That's not what he said.

I had to listen to that part several times, and check the Event Report, before I was sure I had the story straight.

Zimmerman said he gave the dispatcher 'what I thought was my address'. He meant 1960 RVC. Zimmerman's address is 1950 RVC.

In the audio of the call, the first redaction is Zimmerman giving the 1960 address, and the second redaction is the dispatcher reading it back.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #152 on: January 31, 2013, 02:16:29 PM »
I don't know. Why would that matter?

You are suggesting that he acted differently on 2/26.  Maybe its just me, but following in a vehicle or getting out of that vehicle after the suspect flees would be much different than walking up to an occupied vehicle to get plates.  Do we really have to wonder why his actions may have been different?

Quote
She did not, just as Noffke did not ask Zimmerman to get out of his truck and follow Martin.

Never said he did.  He did however ask for information that could only be obtained by GZ getting out of his truck to see where Martin went.   I still see no explanation for why someone would think GZ went looking for a confrontation with TM when he could have had that at several other moments prior to TM running.

We are both speculating, but our speculation is irrelevant, because whatever prompted GZ to get out of his vehicle doesn't matter. 


Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #153 on: January 31, 2013, 03:27:56 PM »
I still see no explanation for why someone would think GZ went looking for a confrontation with TM when he could have had that at several other moments prior to TM running.

Maybe no one has rushed to explain that because it's a point you dropped gratuitously into a discussion about something else.

Offline whonoze

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #154 on: January 31, 2013, 09:59:39 PM »
I still see no explanation for why someone would think GZ went looking for a confrontation with TM when he could have had that at several other moments prior to TM running.

I, for one, do not think GZ went looking for a 'confrontation' when he left his truck. I doubt he had any concrete plan other than finding out what his 'suspect' was up to. I also think he was afraid of Trayvon, thinking him to be some sort of dangerous hoodlum, until the point where Trayvon ran away from him, which led him to feel empowered as to having the upper hand in the situation. All speculation of course, but it is an explanation.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #155 on: February 01, 2013, 01:27:18 AM »
Whonoze.
Quote
"until the point where Trayvon ran away from him, which led him to feel empowered as to having the upper hand in the situation."

How do you have the upper hand on a person when that person has run away from you?  That seems kind of contradictory.  IMO, of course, but TO ME the person who has successfully evaded a person would be the one with the upper hand.

And I suspect that both of our posts will be deleted for speculation.

Offline whonoze

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #156 on: February 01, 2013, 05:28:41 AM »
How do you have the upper hand on a person when that person has run away from you?  That seems kind of contradictory.

Perhaps "upper hand" was not the right phrase. I meant that GZ was initially afraid of TM, and that fear dissipated when TM ran, leading GZ to conclude that TM was afraid of him.

The question I answered was necessarily speculative. I'm not trying to break the rules, just offer an explanation where one was requested.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #157 on: February 01, 2013, 06:31:26 AM »
That's pretty much my thought.  George would have been more nervous of Trayvon when he had his hand in his waistband, circling George's vehicle...but once Trayvon was running away, there's really no reason to assume George would remotely expect (or intend) to meet up with him face to face.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #158 on: February 01, 2013, 06:52:21 AM »
Try as we may, Zimmerman's actions defy explanation.  He didn't want to identify himself to Martin, when the latter was "checking him out" out of "fear" but unlike his behavior on previous incidents, discussed here recently, he followed somebody he thought suspicious into a dark area where he could be ambushed.  Late in the NEN call, when he said he thought Martin might be nearby, he refused to wait on well lit RVC for the cops (even though he later implied that was his reason for going there), but headed back on the dark cut through.  I don't regard these things in the slightest as proving guilt, just severe incompetence and stupidity.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #159 on: February 01, 2013, 07:02:57 AM »
Late in the NEN call, when he said he thought Martin might be nearby

Just to clarify here, he at no point says he thinks Martin might be nearby.  He says he doesn't know where he is.

The difference in meaning is subtle but distinct and important enough to be clear on what he said IMO.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #160 on: February 01, 2013, 07:11:38 AM »
As far as this discussion goes, there is no real difference in saying he doesn't want to give out his home address because he does not know where the guy is with saying he might be near.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 07:16:50 AM by RickyJim »

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #161 on: February 01, 2013, 07:49:29 AM »
RJ, you stated something that's flatly not true, then tried to weasel out of it.

There's a difference between not knowing (which is what GZ actually said, isn't it?) and you saying he knew TM was nearby.


Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #162 on: February 01, 2013, 08:37:03 AM »
There's a difference between not knowing (which is what GZ actually said, isn't it?) and you saying he knew TM was nearby.

That's not what RJ said.

RJ was right. In context, 'I don't know where this kid is,' meant that Zimmerman didn't feel sure that Martin wasn't close enough to overhear him speaking on the phone.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #163 on: February 01, 2013, 09:16:48 AM »
RJ, you stated something that's flatly not true, then tried to weasel out of it.

There's a difference between not knowing (which is what GZ actually said, isn't it?) and you saying he knew TM was nearby.
Of course my point was that by the end of the call, Z wasn't sure at all that Martin had fled but he still decided to risk another traversal of the cut through - much different than he was on 2/2/12.  It is easier to attack me for a quite reasonable paraphrase rather than actually address the issues raised.  Are you Robert Zimmerman, Jr.?

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #164 on: February 02, 2013, 07:04:19 AM »
Of course my point was that by the end of the call, Z wasn't sure at all that Martin had fled but he still decided to risk another traversal of the cut through - much different than he was on 2/2/12.  It is easier to attack me for a quite reasonable paraphrase rather than actually address the issues raised.  Are you Robert Zimmerman, Jr.?

Okay.

I just went back through your posts for 4 days and can't find the original post in question, must have missed it. The only one on point was an edited post.

So, since I can't find the evidence you said what I'm fairly certain you said, I'm forced to concede the point and I apologize for getting it wrong.

Still...edited posts...next time I'll reply with a copy. This won't happen again.


And no, I'm not related to George at all. Why, are you related to BDLR?

 

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