Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 53065 times)

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Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #360 on: April 19, 2013, 02:42:54 AM »
All true, but that doesn't covert two syllables into one.

Can I just confirm that the selection we're talking about is this one here?

http://www.filethief.com/download/1975/gz_truck_clip.wav.html

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #361 on: April 19, 2013, 12:36:02 PM »
Can I just confirm that the selection we're talking about is this one here?

http://www.filethief.com/download/1975/gz_truck_clip.wav.html

That's it.

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #362 on: April 19, 2013, 09:15:55 PM »
Another problem has gotten less attention. There's a period of more than 10 seconds in which Zimmerman seems to observe Martin loitering, and 'looking at all the houses.' This isn't mentioned in any of the SPD interviews. It seems to be directly contradicted, in statements that suggest, more or less strongly, that Martin was already approaching when Zimmerman became aware of him at this point.

From the reenactment, when they're still in the car, approaching the location where GZ parked his vehicle on TTL, right when the wind kicks up and drowns out most of what GZ is saying, it sounds like he says "And I saw him st....".  I hear a strong "st" sound, like he's either saying "standing" or "staring", though I lean towards "standing".  I believe this may have been GZ describing something similar to the 10 seconds you are referring to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_2NeMrGCvg&t=5m47s

One more issue.

0:54-1:16
The 'black male' and 'button' comments suggest that Zimmerman was getting a close look at Martin for the first time. Listening to Zimmerman's voice on the recording, I feel it is very hard to believe this is not the case.

In the SPD interviews, Zimmerman claimed to have had at least one close look at Martin before he called the police.

I also agree that GZ is getting a particularly clear view of TM at this point in time, and noticing things he hadn't noticed earlier, or wasn't certain of, anyway.  I think this is consistent with GZ parked on TTL, facing east, with TM approaching him head-on, likely being illuminated by GZ's headlights (approaching his SUV, leading up to the circling).  I'm not sure what portion of the SPD interviews you're referring to where he claims he had "at least one close look at Martin before he called the police."

What are you drawing from this "one more issue"?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #363 on: April 19, 2013, 09:55:33 PM »
I believe this may have been GZ describing something similar to the 10 seconds you are referring to.

On the recording, it is immediately after this period that Martin begins approaching.

In the reenactment, Martin walks away from Zimmerman, turns and walks out of sight between buildings, then re-appears before approaching and circling the truck. None of this action is mentioned in the recording, and on the theory you suggest there isn't time for it.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #364 on: April 21, 2013, 12:05:53 AM »
I'm not sure what portion of the SPD interviews you're referring to where he claims he had "at least one close look at Martin before he called the police."

Zimmerman said he passed Martin in front of Taaffe's house.

Audio

2/26-1, 4:17-26
Quote
Zimmerman: It was raining out, and he was leisurely walking, taking his time, looking at all the houses.

Singleton: OK.

Zimmerman: When I drove by he stopped and looked at me.

2/26-2, 0:27-35
Quote
Singleton: OK. Can you put an "X" on here, where you first saw the guy?

Zimmerman: Right, right about here.

Map

2/26-2, 1:05-1:13
Quote
Singleton: When do you start calling the police? Where are you?

Zimmerman: I pulled in front of the clubhouse.

Singleton: OK. Did you pass him?

Zimmerman: Yes, ma'am.

Singleton: OK. So he was here, and you passed him and went over here?

Zimmerman: Yes, ma'am.

Reenactment, 0:10-15
Quote
Zimmerman: He was walking like in the grassy area, like, up towards, kinda between these two poles.

Reenactment, 0:51-1:08
Quote
Zimmerman: I kept driving. I passed him and he was, he kept staring at me, and staring ar-, looking around, to see who else was, I don't know why he was looking, but -

Smith: Did he walk off from there, or did he stop there last night?

Zimmerman: He stopped, and he's, he, he like, looked around.

Reenactment, 1:24-35
Quote
Smith: Where did he, where was he standing at when you, when he stopped? 

Zimmerman: Right there. Right in front of 1460.

Smith: By the sidewalk, or in the grassy area?

Zimmerman: No, in the grassy area.

Smith: Right in the grassy area?

Zimmerman: Yes.

Smith: OK. That's about right in front of where the car is.

Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

2/29-1, 8:19-29
Quote
Zimmerman: He stopped in front of the house. And then, I drove, there was a car, like, backing up, so I, I slowed down. And then I drove around him. And he kept looking at me.

Departure:
Quote
What are you drawing from this "one more issue"?

I am not convinced that the NEN call and Zimmerman's story can be combined in any way that makes sense.

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #365 on: April 21, 2013, 08:03:39 AM »
Zimmerman said he passed Martin in front of Taaffe's house.

Thanks for the detailed reply.  I don't see where GZ said he had "at least one close look at Martin before he called the police", however; especially the underlined part.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #366 on: April 21, 2013, 08:19:34 AM »
I don't see where GZ said he had "at least one close look at Martin before he called the police"

If you watch the reenactment, or examine the map that Zimmerman marked, I think it is clear that he was claiming to have had a close look. I did not say or imply that 'close look' was a verbatim quote.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #367 on: April 22, 2013, 07:03:03 AM »
As we've seen in several instances, "close" is relative (and no cigar).  I'd guess by the verbiage used in the NEN, GZ goes from thinking TM looks black to confirming without question that he is black.  The first look may have been close.  The later look was probably closer and/or with better lighting.  I am not aware of how great the lighting is on RVC or TTL in the locations GZ observed TM, but it would seem to make sense that a look that allows him to confirm the race and relative age of the person wearing a hoodie would more likely occur with that person walking towards him than from following him (GZ's headlights would have also aided if viewing TM in this manner).  If the only time I had ever seen TM was the 7-11 video (grainy video, decent lighting), there is no way I could tell you his age within 20 years.

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #368 on: April 27, 2013, 09:15:40 PM »
Not sure if this has been shared yet.  NPR interview with RZ Jr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK_MFDmasQ4

At approximately 6:00 in, RZ Jr. mentions how GZ had been waiting for a person to take his call.  Sounds like he's implying GZ was on hold (without actually using the term "hold").  He also doesn't mention how long he was on hold, or "waiting", but it seems he's at least trying to imply the duration was significant.

Good interview overall too.

 

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