Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 52597 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2013, 03:12:02 AM »
Responding to post on another thread.

And I think he was at Lakes Edge when he took shelter from heavier rains.  It coincides with the bank videos at 6:39 where the windshield wipers were not on intermittent but consistently moving IIRC. If you add 15min it gets you to 6:54.

I'm not getting the point of the last sentence.

Now I'm looking at Martin's phone records, from 6:30 on (pp. 6-7).

At 6:30, just after passing out of the view of the 7-11 cameras, Martin called North Dade. The connection lasted 13 minutes, to 6:43. Must be Dee Dee. She didn't mention the 6:43 connection break to de la Rionda.

At 6:41 Martin took an incoming call, that lasted 4 minutes. Three way? Or was he juggling them? Or did Martin take more than a  minute to sweet talk Dee Dee off the phone, until he could finish his business with Caller X? Either way, Dee Dee hasn't spoken a known word about any of the other calls Martin received.

Have investigators identified Caller X? I doubt it was Chad. I think his call would have been one of the under-a-minute ones, which I'm ignoring.

De la Rionda told Dee Dee 'We've got all the phone records' (5:02), but he never asked who else Martin was talking to.

At 6:45 Martin was done with Caller X, and called North Dade. The call lasted 5 minutes.

At 6:49 Martin got another incoming call, which lasted 4 minutes. This time Dee Dee was off the phone before the end of the next minute.

To me it looks like two of the disconnections that Dee Dee implied were the phone 'acting up' (4:59), might have been Dee Dee clearing the line for Martin to talk to someone else.

At 6:53 and 6:54 Martin made calls to North Dade that were billed at 1 minute. These may have been calls to Dee Dee that were aborted for some reason, maybe because the phones were 'acting up'. If one or both of these calls were to Dee Dee, then Martin may have told her he was done with his other call.

At 6:54 Martin got an incoming call that lasted 18 minutes. It would end at 7:12, roughly in the middle of Zimmerman's call reporting Martin to the Sanford Police Department.

At 7:12 Martin got an incoming call that lasted 4 minutes.

The last two calls would be the ones on which Dee Dee claimed that Martin gave her a play-by-play of his encounter with Zimmerman.

Dee Dee told de la Rionda that the phones disconnected about the time that Martin ran to the mail shade, and that it was re-established by Dee Dee calling Martin (5:38-58).

If the rain started at 6:36 or earlier, that would have been in the first half of the 6:30-6:43 call. It could not have been coincident with a lost connection.

So, if we conjecture that the rain started at such a time, that Martin took shelter somewhere in Lakes Edge or Colonial Village, and that Dee Dee was mistaken about the coincident timing of the rain and the phone disconnection, what then? What can we say next about the timeline?

I meant to explore this question, but wrestling with the phone records has already made a longer post than I expected. I'll leave it there for now.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 03:21:43 AM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2013, 07:29:20 AM »
When speaking timeline, also consider when Dee Dee specifically mentions being disconnected with TM.   There are three specific occurrences she details of being disconnected and ties them to events that she remembers.  I'll detail them in reverse order of mention.

1.  She mentions being disconnected when TM ran from GZ.  This disconnection clearly seems to coincide with the 6:54 call ending (it lasted 18 minutes) and the getting reconnected at 7:12 (final call that lasted 4 minutes).  This matches GZ's timeline for when he said TM ran/skipped down the dog walk.

2.  Dee Dee says her call gets disconnected as TM leaves the shelter of the mail thingy.  This occurs after TM notices GZ.  "He was telling me like…like he a man watching him, so he like started walking .... And then…the phone hung up. And I call him back again. And then, I say ‘What you
doin’?’ and he say he walkin’ and he said this man still following him, behind the car".  The description of this disconnection and call back doesn't fit any timeline because this call would have had to start before 6:54.  It could be that she just isn't remembering correctly and that the call didn't get disconnected at this time.  I guess its also possible that this disconnection wasn't a disconnection, but her being put on hold for TM to take a 7:04 incoming call.  That call lasted a minute, so that would put TM leaving the mail thingy around 7:05, three to four minutes before GZ details seeing him.  Could be that TM hadn't seen GZ yet and went walking around the neighborhood and then GZ sees TM near Taffe's snooping around.   The issues with believing this happened are that Dee Dee says she called him back and that she says TM had already made contact with GZ before he left shelter.

3.  Her call got disconnected when TM made a mad dash to get out of the rain and under the mail thingy.  Given that she mentions 2 disconnects occurring after this one, this would have occurred before 6:54.   To have an idea when this dash for shelter occurred, we have to look at the call timeline which NMNM supplies.  AS NMNM details, there is no call end time that coincides with when it started raining harder.  It could be that TM didn't go take shelter immediately, but decided to take shelter at some point after the rain continued. 

We obviously don't have enough information to nail down where TM was and when.  Dee Dee details that she called him back the last 3 calls (after running to get out of the rain, after leaving the mail thingy and after TM runs from GZ), but it looks like TM only had 2 incoming calls from Dee Dee during this time.  Unless, one or more of the calls to North Dade weren't to Dee Dee and some of those earlier incoming calls were from Dee Dee while TM was talking to someone else in North Dade.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2013, 08:54:52 AM »
The 15 minutes TM was under shelter and talking on the phone fit the Crump narrative better if he is at The Retreat.  Not somewhere else.

Those phone records...I question when they were accessed originally but TO ME, if the police ask for a password to the account, I would be on my computer sooner than a couple of weeks later to look.  I would have looked that same day or even sooner since I would know they have the phone in evidence.  I would be looking for anything if my child had been shot.

Crump had access to the phone records.
Crump had access to the NEN by apprx (March 13th v 16th) a week before it was released.
Crump produces W8, not to SAO, but to ABC's Matt Gutman.

If Crump had taken her to the SAO immediately, her sworn statement wouldn't have been released for weeks/months later in Discovery and that didn't fit his agenda.

Tracy and Sybrina approached W8 to beg her assistance with LE.
FDLE had to go look for her when she missed her scheduled appointment.
Why the reluctance?  This was her good friend since kindergarden and potential suitor.   IMO, that young woman didn't want to talk.  Period.


Sorry.  I went off on a tangent, probably better suited to the W8 thread.  ((blushes))

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2013, 09:31:33 AM »
Have investigators identified Caller X? I doubt it was Chad. I think his call would have been one of the under-a-minute ones, which I'm ignoring.

Not sure we should just ignore the Chad call and time.  There was only one incoming call to TM after leaving the 7-11 that was less than 4 minutes in length and that was the 1 minute call at 7:04.  If Chad called TM, this would have to be the call.  That Chad said he was on his way home and not waiting the rain out at the mail thingy or that a creepy white man was watching him could be relevant.  Not sure if BDLR didn't ask him any followup questions to that phone conversation or that this is all Chad remembered since all we have is a synopsis of that interview.

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #94 on: January 23, 2013, 01:23:45 PM »
I added some, perhaps relevant, comments on the Martin phone record thread.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #95 on: January 23, 2013, 03:24:54 PM »
Not sure we should just ignore the Chad call and time. 

I didn't say we should ignore it for all time. I said that I was ignoring the short calls, meaning that I was ignoring them for the moment, for the purposes of that post. The post was long enough as it was.

Context, people, please.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #96 on: January 23, 2013, 08:17:37 PM »
I believe when Chad's call occurred is important to the timeline and route and we'd be remiss not to include it.  Chad says TM said he was on his way home from the store and it was raining.  It seems likely that Chads call is the 1 minute incoming call at 7:04.  I would think if TM was standing at the mail thingy, he would have let Chad know that he was there and he was waiting out the rain not that he was on his way home.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #97 on: January 28, 2013, 05:40:02 AM »
Some BccList contributors have a new video on YouTube. It's 47 minutes. From a first viewing, I would say it is a valuable contribution to the discussion.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #98 on: January 28, 2013, 09:03:32 AM »
NMNM is joking again.   The video is worthless so don't bother.  It accepts that the mail thingy under which Trayvon sought shelter is the one at The Retreat at Twin Lakes.  It ends with the speculation that Zimmerman's path on foot was TTL to RVC on the cut through, RVC south to TTL, right on TTL to the dog path and then Zimmerman chased Martin, who for unknown reasons hadn't returned home, north to W#6's lawn.  Definitely not for people as knowledgeable as those who regularly read this forum; the credits at the end show the handles of people who have been banned from posting here.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #99 on: January 28, 2013, 08:14:26 PM »
NMNM is joking again.
   

I wouldn't recommend a 47 minute video for a joke. I don't think I would recommend any video as a joke in that way. Rickrolling always struck me as a dumb and pointless prank.

When I have time I will discuss the video in more detail. 

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #100 on: January 28, 2013, 09:26:13 PM »
Some BccList contributors have a new video on YouTube. It's 47 minutes. From a first viewing, I would say it is a valuable contribution to the discussion.

How much of it, especially any added music, falls under the heading of "editorializing"?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #101 on: January 28, 2013, 11:23:51 PM »
How much of it, especially any added music, falls under the heading of "editorializing"?

I think there is a good mix of factual presentation and commentary. Much of the factual material will be familiar. I learned a lot about the clubhouse videos, which is an area I've neglected.

There is some music, but I didn't pay much attention to it.

The level of factual accuracy is pretty high, especially in comparison to most of what has been said and written about the case.

I think they have Zimmerman's residence in the wrong building, but I could be the one mistaken. I'm just relying on Google Earth. Only off by one, so an inconsequential error if it is one.

They attribute to Zimmerman the claim that Martin entered by 1460/1510, which is one of my pet peeves.

In a segment labeled speculative, the video has the confrontation begin where the body was found. All the evidence that it happened near the T is ignored, not addressed.

I'm sure there are other errors, but those are the ones I noticed and recall. There's also a fair amount of opinions stated as facts. Probably the worst fault of the video is treating Dee Dee's assertions as if they were uncontested facts.

I don't know what to make of the conclusions drawn from the clubhouse videos. I'm very interested in hearing from people who are knowledgeable about video.
   

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #102 on: January 29, 2013, 02:35:39 AM »
I learned a lot about the clubhouse videos, which is an area I've neglected.

Quote
I don't know what to make of the conclusions drawn from the clubhouse videos. I'm very interested in hearing from people who are knowledgeable about video.

I have realized that the analysis of the clubhouse videos is a development of the one discussed on this post, by unitron, in answer to one by RickyJim.

Quote
I'll be curious to see what the site author does upon getting access to time-stamped versions of those clubhouse videos and doing the 18 minute correction, instead of having to work backwards from when the blue and red flashing lights show up.

The answer to that is on the video, if unitron is still interested. From the little I know about the earlier work, I don't see any revision.

I don't recall seeing this line of work discussed on the forum since that post. Have any pro-defense people taken it seriously enough to criticize it? DiwataMan? 

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2013, 05:00:29 AM »
How much of it, especially any added music, falls under the heading of "editorializing"?

Hey, what are you asking me for? I just found out you were almost in the credits.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2013, 06:56:34 AM »
I have realized that the analysis of the clubhouse videos is a development of the one discussed on this post, by unitron, in answer to one by RickyJim.

The answer to that is on the video, if unitron is still interested. From the little I know about the earlier work, I don't see any revision.

I don't recall seeing this line of work discussed on the forum since that post. Have any pro-defense people taken it seriously enough to criticize it? DiwataMan?

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2022.msg105676.html#msg105676

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2022.msg105730.html#msg105730

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2022.msg105747.html#msg105747

 

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