Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 75513 times)

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Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #195 on: April 07, 2013, 07:38:15 PM »
An address would require more than a house number.  It would require the street name, which GZ has said repeatedly he could not remember that night.  Also, the houses to the north wouldn't have visible house numbers and he may not have been able to see the house numbers on the south side, depending on where his car was actually parked.   When initially connecting with the dispatcher, he's asked for his location.  He responds with the best address I can give you which appears to be a clear indication that he's not at that address and on TTL.  Later when asked what address he's parked in front of, he says he doesn't know because its a cut through.  Its possible he means something else, but the most likely use front he NEN is that he's referring to TTL as the cut through.   

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #196 on: April 07, 2013, 07:40:30 PM »
I assume his truck was not parked on the dog walk

Zimmerman said 'it's a cut-through', not 'on a cut-through'.

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He appears to be able to see his truck

Why do you say that?

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #197 on: April 07, 2013, 07:44:58 PM »
...

Because in the Singleton interview he refers to the walkway connecting the streets as the "dog walk" not the "cut through."

If he called the east-west stretch of TTL the cut-through, and the east-west sidewalk that comprises the top cross-bar of the "T" the dog walk, what did he call the long north south sidewalk that's the riser of the "T"?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #198 on: April 07, 2013, 07:49:38 PM »
It would require the street name, which GZ has said repeatedly he could not remember that night.

Not to Noffke.

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When initially connecting with the dispatcher, he's asked for his location.

He was not. He volunteered the address of the clubhouse.

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He responds with the best address I can give you which appears to be a clear indication that he's not at that address and on TTL.

I don't think it's any indication of his own location.

 

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #199 on: April 07, 2013, 09:31:22 PM »
Not to Noffke.
Implied in "best address I can give you", which seems pretty clear that its not where he's at or he wouldn't have supplied the qualifier.  When someone asks me the address of my house or another location of where to meet them, I don't say "well, the best address I can give you is ...   Also would be implied in the response to the question of what address his car is parked in front of and when giving directions to his truck, does not mention the name of the street he's on.

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He was not. He volunteered the address of the clubhouse.

Good correction.  It actually shows more clearly that GZ doesn't know the address of where he is as it wasn't a response to a dynamic question, but his own offering that he had time to consider and felt was an important fact.  That GZ doesn't say he's at the clubhouse and gives the indication that the address he is giving out is his current location, to me is an indication that he was at a different location at that time.  It would seem to make sense that if he didn't know the address of his current location, that he would give the clubhouse address (which he is near) as the best address he can provide.  Personally, I believe he wasn't at his final stopping place yet, but had moved from the clubhouse when providing this description of his location.

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I don't think it's any indication of his own location.
See above.  Have you ever heard anyone say "the best address I can give you is", then supply the actual address as their answer?  I would suspect if he was at the clubhouse, he would have said as much.  I don't contend to know whether he was just pulling out of the clubhouse, moving around the corner, following the turn on TTL or at his final resting place.  I think its clear he's not at the clubhouse at that time.

Why do I think GZ can see his truck as he's talking to dispatch?  Because when Sean first asks about meeting officers, GZ is describing directions to his truck (again giving no street name seeming to validate he doesn't know the street to Sean) and says thats my truck, then something else that isn't entirely intelligible.  The statements and context (along with the unintelligible statement that appears to be centered on the truck) lead me to believe he can see his truck at this moment.  Then of course there is his testimony that he never veered from the top of the 'T', which would mean his vehicle would have been visible at all times.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #200 on: April 07, 2013, 10:23:48 PM »
When someone asks me the address of my house or another location of where to meet them, I don't say "well, the best address I can give you is ...   

Zimmerman wasn't asked where he wanted to meet the police until later in the call.

On the recordings of Zimmerman's earlier calls, an address was the first thing the dispatcher asked for. They need one for the report. Zimmerman didn't like to give his own address, and often gave the clubhouse address.

He might have said 'best address' because Martin wasn't there, or because Martin was in motion and Zimmerman couldn't anticipate where he would be by the time the police arrived.

I just don't see any reason to associate the address Zimmerman volunteered at the start of the call with his own location. He might have said the same thing, regardless of where he himself was located.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #201 on: April 07, 2013, 10:32:48 PM »
The statements and context (along with the unintelligible statement that appears to be centered on the truck) lead me to believe he can see his truck at this moment.

Zimmerman knew where he left the truck. He didn't have to see it to give directions to it.

Btw, I hear 'They'll see my truck' instead of 'That's my truck'.

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #202 on: April 07, 2013, 11:12:00 PM »
The dispatcher needed an address to enter into the report or log or whatever they call it and to give to whoever he dispatched.

I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would know that.

Which means it makes sense that he'd include one early on in the call, and if he were no longer parked at the clubhouse but didn't know where "the suspect" would be when the police did arrive that he would include the qualifier of "best I can give you".

Offline AJ

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #203 on: April 08, 2013, 12:16:09 AM »
"the suspect"

Call me pedantic, politically correct, etc, etc, etc... but there wasn't a "suspect", there was a "subject" :)

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #204 on: April 08, 2013, 12:23:16 AM »
Call me pedantic, politically correct, etc, etc, etc... but there wasn't a "suspect", there was a "subject" :)

You know that and I know that, but it seems George didn't, hence my wrapping it in quotation marks.

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #205 on: April 08, 2013, 12:31:14 AM »
NM_NE: Zimmerman told Singleton 'I didn’t know the name of the street that I was on'. That is exactly what he did not say to Noffke.

In the Singleton interview, GZ says of Twin Tree: "Goes in, cuts through the middle of my neighborhood." That seems like a pretty strong indication that he might think of the street as a "cut-through." The fact that he said he didn't know the street name when interviewed by Singleton, but not when talking with Noffke counts for almost nothing, in my estimation. He wasn't being interviewed by Noffke. He chose a different way of saying it. Perhaps it was just how he happened to express himself at that moment, perhaps it was to somewhat avoided admitting he couldn't think of the street name.

unitron: If he called the east-west stretch of TTL the cut-through, and the east-west sidewalk that comprises the top cross-bar of the "T" the dog walk, what did he call the long north south sidewalk that's the riser of the "T"?

My guess is he just called the whole walkway the "dog walk," without necessarily thinking of it as separate components. That he at least referred to the east-west portion as the dog walk is apparent from the interview:

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Zimmerman: Um, then, dispatcher told me, ah, where are you? and I said I’m trying to find out where he went. And he said we don’t need you to do that. And I said OK. Ah, he said we already have a police officer en route. And I said alright, I, I had gone where, through the dog walk where I normally walk my dog, and walked back through to my street, the street that loops around. And he said we already have a police officer on
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 12:33:07 AM by MJW »

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #206 on: April 08, 2013, 12:37:27 AM »
I knew we should have all waited for Zimmerman to produce a glossary before anyone ever discussed this case in public.

 ;D

And I'm only half-way joking.

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #207 on: April 08, 2013, 12:45:29 AM »
Because of how he described Twin Trees Lane to Singleton:

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Zimmerman: Um, and, dispatch asked me where he went. I didn’t know the name of the street that I was on, I
Singleton: So you’d come off your street and gotten to another street
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: at some point? OK.
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am. Goes in, cuts through the middle of my neighborhood.
Singleton: OK.

The very next line from the exchange was this:

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Zimmerman: I didn’t know the name of the street. Um, or where he went. So I got out of my car to look for the street sign, and to see if I could see where he cut through so that I could tell the police where…

He seems somewhat liberal with his use of the term "cut through", so I'm not sure if the portion of the transcript you provided really clarifies much.

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #208 on: April 08, 2013, 01:01:45 AM »
The very next line from the exchange was this:

He seems somewhat liberal with his use of the term "cut through", so I'm not sure if the portion of the transcript you provided really clarifies much.

I admit that does somewhat weaken my argument, but I'll also mention that though GZ does use the word "cut" fairly often,  I believe those are the only uses of "cut through" in the Singleton and Serino interviews, and I've notice when people use a term they seem to have it on the "tip of their brain" and often repeat it.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #209 on: April 08, 2013, 01:04:13 AM »
there wasn't a "suspect", there was a "subject" :)

Webster's Third International, 2002

suspect n : one who is suspected

suspect vb 2 : to imagine (one) to be guilty or culpable on slight evidence or without proof

 

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