Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 76028 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #210 on: April 08, 2013, 01:32:53 AM »
In the Singleton interview, GZ says of Twin Tree: "Goes in, cuts through the middle of my neighborhood." That seems like a pretty strong indication that he might think of the street as a "cut-through."

It doesn't seem that way to me. For that, I would at least need some indication that Zimmerman, or anyone, uses the expression 'cut-through' to mean a street.

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perhaps it was to somewhat avoided admitting he couldn't think of the street name.

Are you suggesting that Zimmerman was using a private code that he expected the dispatcher not to understand?

Offline AJ

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #211 on: April 08, 2013, 01:58:33 AM »
It doesn't seem that way to me. For that, I would at least need some indication that Zimmerman, or anyone, uses the expression 'cut-through' to mean a street.

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Verb   1.   cut through - travel across or pass overcut through - travel across or pass over; "The caravan covered almost 100 miles each day"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cut+through

To be certain, I use the term quite often to describe a road that .. cuts through.. my back yard.

Offline AJ

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #212 on: April 08, 2013, 02:04:05 AM »
Webster's Third International, 2002

suspect n : one who is suspected

suspect vb 2 : to imagine (one) to be guilty or culpable on slight evidence or without proof

Who imagined Mr. Martin to be guilty of anything? Last I checked, Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin looked suspicious...
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sus·pi·cious
adjective \sə-ˈspi-shəs\
Definition of SUSPICIOUS
1: tending to arouse suspicion : questionable <suspicious characters>
2: disposed to suspect : distrustful <suspicious of strangers>
3: expressing or indicative of suspicion <a suspicious glance>


Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #213 on: April 08, 2013, 02:32:44 AM »
It doesn't seem that way to me. For that, I would at least need some indication that Zimmerman, or anyone, uses the expression 'cut-through' to mean a street.


Try Googling "cut-through street"


Or read this article:

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The city says it receives the most complaints from residents on motorists' use of these four cut-throughs:
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 02:37:04 AM by MJW »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #214 on: April 08, 2013, 02:49:27 AM »

Try Googling "cut-through street"


Or read this article:

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The city says it receives the most complaints from residents on motorists' use of these four cut-throughs:

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A cut-through street is a local street used by motorists to cut through from one main thoroughfare to another to avoid traffic lights or congestion.

That's a different definition than just a street that itself cuts through.

From googling, my impression is that the usual expression is 'cut-through street', rather than just 'cut-through' as a noun meaning a street of that kind. The sentence you quoted is a summarizing blurb, shortened like a headline.

The expression is often defined in the articles, suggesting that it is not in common usage.

ETA: Reading further down the article, I see this writer does frequently use 'cut-through' as a noun meaning 'cut-through street'.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 03:04:00 AM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #215 on: April 08, 2013, 03:22:59 AM »
My guess is he just called the whole walkway the "dog walk," without necessarily thinking of it as separate components.

Zimmerman more often referred to the N/S sidewalk as the surface on which his head was banged, rather than a route.  He called it 'the concrete', 'the cement', 'the sidewalk', or 'a sidewalk'. He also said 'dogwalk', but I think only before the reenactment, when he seemed to recall for the first time that the action moved south of the T.

One time he did refer to the N/S sidewalk as a route, he called it 'the sidewalk here, between this row of houses' (2/26-1, 20:46).

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #216 on: April 08, 2013, 01:31:01 PM »
Zimmerman wasn't asked where he wanted to meet the police until later in the call.
I didn't say he was.  I am saying when someone asks me for my address or I give it out voluntarily, I don't say, "the best address I can give you", unless I don't know the address where I am at and am giving one to a nearby location.

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He might have said 'best address' because Martin wasn't there, or because Martin was in motion and Zimmerman couldn't anticipate where he would be by the time the police arrived.
If the reason was because Martin wasn't there, that would convince me that GZ wasn't there either.  In interviews, GZ said he went around the corner after TM disappeared, so if TM wasn't at the clubhouse, he would have been passed it and GZ would have gone to follow.  After giving the address, GZ provides some present tense description of TM's actions, then Sean's first question was of the suspects race.  GZ again answers in the present tense of "he looks black", not "he looked black" as in I can't see him right now, but thats what I noticed earlier.  In a few seconds, he also says that TM is staring at him which is more evidence that TM is in sight.

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I just don't see any reason to associate the address Zimmerman volunteered at the start of the call with his own location. He might have said the same thing, regardless of where he himself was located.

Its an important element to the case given GZ's story.  I think the words used by GZ during the NEN show it most likely he wasn't at the clubhouse when he connected with Sean.  People just don't use the phrase "the best address I can give you" if thats where they are actually located.  Its a phrase you use when you don't know exactly where you are and give the closest point of reference that you are aware of.  ITs akin to saying I am near this location, not at this location.  ITs not a guarantee of course because anything is possible, but I can't think of a reason for him not to say either he or TM were at the clubhouse when giving out that address if thats where either of them were. 

Clearly what happens after GZ gets out of his vehicle is more important than what happened before it, but if it can be shown that the timing of his narrative fits with the NEN prior to exiting, his statements about what happens after, become more believable.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #217 on: April 08, 2013, 02:12:16 PM »


The very next line from the exchange was this:

He seems somewhat liberal with his use of the term "cut through", so I'm not sure if the portion of the transcript you provided really clarifies much.

In this reference, he is talking about a persons actions, not an inanimate object like a sidewalk or street.  IF he had said he got out to see which cut through TM had used, then I think it would muddy its use. 

Like a lot of things, we could say we don't know for sure which he meant, but its seems much more logical that his use of "cut through" in answering a direction question as to what address he is parked in front of, is in reference to the street that his vehicle was parked on.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #218 on: April 08, 2013, 03:04:44 PM »
its seems much more logical that his use of "cut through" in answering a direction question as to what address he is parked in front of, is in reference to the street that his vehicle was parked on.

The truck was parked on the street, not in front of the street.

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #219 on: April 11, 2013, 09:15:14 PM »
I'm much less confident in my opinion that "cut-through" refers to the street after listening to the voice-stress interview. GZ at least twice refers to the dog path as a "cut-through." He does once again mention that Twin Trees Lane cuts through the neighborhood, saying as best I recall, that he didn't know the street's name because it's a side street that cuts through his neighborhood. I still think "cut through" may refer to the street, and GZ may as, Departure suggested, use the term liberally.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #220 on: April 11, 2013, 09:25:19 PM »
The truck was parked on the street, not in front of the street.

I don't think streets have addresses or Sean asked what street he was parked in front of (I checked, he instead asked what address he parked in front of).  I am pretty sure GZ parked on a street and in front of an address.  Unfortunately the house faced the other direction and didn't have a and address that matched the street he was parked on.  There were other houses on that street that he could could easily find the numbers for, but an address with a house number is worthless without the name of the street.  I'm assuming GZ wasn't referring to a particular house as a "cut-through" in his answer to what address his SUV was parked in front of.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #221 on: April 11, 2013, 09:45:51 PM »
I am pretty sure GZ parked on a street and in front of an address.  Unfortunately the house faced the other direction . . .

That means the truck wasn't parked in front of the house. It was parked in back of the house.

There is one building on the south side of that stretch of TTL. It faces north, toward TTL.

East of that building is a cut-through, and Zimmerman's truck was parked in front of that cut-through.

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #222 on: April 11, 2013, 10:40:38 PM »
I'd really love to hear any/more thoughts/info on this:

Does anybody have any more information on how long GZ was on hold, in queue, or otherwise delayed in getting through directly to the non-emergency dispatcher upon first calling them?

Depending on the length of delay, this could potentially allow GZ's apparent implication that TM first passes him at the clubhouse, then later returns from near the T area to circle his car (while he's parked on TTL), to make sense.  If there was a significant delay (1-2+ minutes) in getting through to the dispatcher/Sean, it would allow GZ's story to make sense.  If not... then...

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #223 on: April 11, 2013, 10:45:49 PM »
I agree with you about the significance of the issue.

I haven't seen anything, in the discovery or elsewhere, that sheds any light on it.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #224 on: April 12, 2013, 08:09:00 AM »
Am I correct that Zimmerman was not questioned about, nor did he volunteer, his interaction with Martin from the first observation at Taafe's house to the time that he pulled into the clubhouse parking lot?  Zimmerman, contrary to his stated behavior in previous incidents, didn't try to avoid Martin noticing that he was being noticed by Zimmerman.  In fact Zimmerman must have annoyed him enough to cause the later confrontation.  One might guess that Zimmerman left Martin at Taafe's and then Martin caught up to him at the clubhouse but it could be that Zimmerman tailed him at least part of the way.

 

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