Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 75634 times)

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Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #225 on: April 12, 2013, 11:22:12 AM »
Zimmerman, contrary to his stated behavior in previous incidents, didn't try to avoid Martin noticing that he was being noticed by Zimmerman.

Had GZ ever called the non-emergency number or 911 from his vehicle before?  If he hadn't, the circumstances of this instance would be somewhat unique when compared to the others previous.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #226 on: April 12, 2013, 11:42:23 AM »
That means the truck wasn't parked in front of the house. It was parked in back of the house.

There is one building on the south side of that stretch of TTL. It faces north, toward TTL.

East of that building is a cut-through, and Zimmerman's truck was parked in front of that cut-through.

NEN wouldn't have known anything about where GZ parked, but I think its common vernacular to ask the question in this manner.  Sean wouldn't have had any clue that houses along TTL could be front or rear facing.   GZ didn't explicitly provide that he was parked behind houses (though he was parked in front of some others), but he provided the information that he couldn't give an address because its a cut through.  He didn't mention to Sean that he didn't know the street name, which we found  out later, but it is a reason that precluded him from providing an address.

Yes, there is also a building on the east side of TTL after it bends.  We don't know the exact location of GZ's parked SUV, but GZ also could have potentially provided this address as one he was parked in front of.  Alas he didn't know the street name which is an essential part of an address.

How far in front of the sidewalk cut through was GZ parked?  I thought you believed he parked where they stopped during the re-enactment some 50-60 feet away, so is that consistent with GZ being parked in front of that sidewalk?  Isn't that sidewalk within about 10 feet of W11/W20's house?  Are you suggesting GZ knew the street name (making it easy to relay the address for W11/W20's house), but chose instead to say he parked in front of a sidewalk, some 60 feet from it, without providing any other bearings to his location? 

I don't view GZ as the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's not an idiot either.  Given that the sidewalk "cut through" is about 10 feet from an actual house on TTL, I doubt he would have said he can't provide an address for the sidewalk he parked in front of, with a house sitting right next to it.  Occam's Razor seems applicable in this discussion.





« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 11:55:35 AM by leftwig »

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #227 on: April 12, 2013, 11:58:55 AM »
Bienvenido Sr. Departure.  Have you seen the thread on Previous NEN Calls?  The question you raised has been discussed there.  I think reading and listening to the previous calls and pondering the differences with the last is worthwhile. 

We know he was on foot, walking his dog, on 2/2/12.  It is not clear on the previous ones where he was.  On the second NEN call, 8/26/2011, he actually told the dispatcher to have the cops meet him at the back entrance where he would let them in, which suggests he might have been in his car at the time.  Regardless, why he decided to get out of the car on 2/26/12 and head for the very dark dog walk, which he had used to walk his dog on earlier occasions, rather than stay in his car and drive to where he thought Martin was heading, remains a mystery. 

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #228 on: April 12, 2013, 09:14:48 PM »
I think its common vernacular to ask the question in this manner.  Sean wouldn't have had any clue that houses along TTL could be front or rear facing.

Agreed.

I don't see how either point is relevant. It seems much of this discussion is at cross purposes.

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I thought you believed he parked where they stopped during the re-enactment

I'm not convinced Zimmerman told the truth about where he left the truck, but I have been assuming that for this discussion.

Three maps.

[Left clicking a photo enlarges it. Right clicking calls up a menu.

Once enlarged, a photo can be enlarged again by clicking the magnifying glass icon in the upper right, and enlarged again by clicking 'Fullscreen', also upper right.]

There are two cut-throughs at the bend in TTL. One is northeast of the bend, its sidewalk leading east to RVC. The other is southwest of the bend, with a sidewalk leading south and west to another sidewalk, which rings the central pond.

The parking spot Zimmerman indicated is in front of the southwest cut-through.

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Are you suggesting GZ knew the street name

Certainly not. Where do you get that idea?

I thought Zimmerman had forgotten the street name before his statements were released, and we found that he had admitted as much. It was discussed on the blog, before the forum opened.

Neither you nor MJW have addressed the issue that I think is decisive.

It is quite common for a street that 'cuts through' a neighborhood to be the neighborhood's major artery. I think that arrangement is more common than one like RATL, with the main street encircling the neighborhood. Even if such a layout is very common in the gated communities of Sanford, I doubt it is so predominate that someone would expect 'cut-through' to be automatically understood as equivalent to 'secondary street'. Without such an expectation, saying the street is 'a cut-through' is no explanation for not knowing an address.

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #229 on: April 12, 2013, 09:28:21 PM »
It is quite common for a street that 'cuts through' a neighborhood to be the neighborhood's major artery. I think that arrangement is more common than one like RATL, with the main street encircling the neighborhood. Even if such a layout is very common in the gated communities of Sanford, I doubt it is so predominate that someone would expect 'cut-through' to be automatically understood as equivalent to 'secondary street'. Without such an expectation, saying the street is 'a cut-through' is no explanation for not knowing an address.

In the voice-stress interview, GZ refers to Twin Trees and a "side street," which I would take as equivalent to a "secondary street." He either says directly or implies (I don't recall which) that that's why he didn't know its name.

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #230 on: April 12, 2013, 09:29:06 PM »
Why didn't he parked further (farther?) east, even closer to the bend and the west end of the sidewalk that forms the top of the "T"?

He drove over that way to keep an eye on Martin, correct?

Martin, prior to coming back to circle the truck before taking off running, had disappeared into the darkness somewhere around the "T", right?

Why not get his headlights closer to that area before Martin re-appeared?

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #231 on: April 12, 2013, 09:46:13 PM »
I'm not convinced Zimmerman told the truth about where he left the truck, but I have been assuming that for this discussion.

It's not very likely that Zimmerman lied about where he left his truck since SPD ran the tags on his parked vehicle. I think this fact would have been mentioned at some point in the narratives.

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #232 on: April 12, 2013, 09:57:13 PM »
It's not very likely that Zimmerman lied about where he left his truck since SPD ran the tags on his parked vehicle. I think this fact would have been mentioned at some point in the narratives.

He could have left it not exactly where he said/indicated but still in the same general area and they'd still have found it to run the tags.

They were looking for "outsider" vehicles, so when it came back registered to a resident it wasn't considered a big deal, so apparently the location wasn't made note of at the time, any more than was the location of the white Honda.

I certainly hope someone got up with Office B within a few days and got that info, including which way the truck was pointed, but there's no record of whether or not that was done.

One thing that seems strange to me is the considerable time in between finding the white Honda and the silver Honda truck.

Has it ever been absolutely established that the white Honda was Shellie's?

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #233 on: April 12, 2013, 10:04:22 PM »
They were looking for "outsider" vehicles, so when it came back registered to a resident it wasn't considered a big deal, so apparently the location wasn't made note of at the time, any more than was the location of the white Honda.

I don't think that's been established. The officer who radioed in the tag number may have written down the location in his field notes. He certainly should have realized that it might be significant once he heard the vehicle was registered to Zimmerman.

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #234 on: April 12, 2013, 10:07:22 PM »
Has it ever been absolutely established that the white Honda was Shellie's?

I'm not suggesting it wasn't Shellie's, but I didn't know there was any reason to think it was.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #235 on: April 12, 2013, 10:13:21 PM »
In the voice-stress interview, GZ refers to Twin Trees and a "side street," which I would take as equivalent to a "secondary street." He either says directly or implies (I don't recall which) that that's why he didn't know its name.

CVSA, 2/27, 27:04-31, 6:45:41-46:07 
Quote
So I pulled out, and I drove adjacent to the clubhouse. And, I was unfamiliar with the street name. The operator asked me what street I was on. And it's not the street that I live on. It's a side street that cuts through the neighborhood. And I told him I didn't know. And, they said, "We need to know - " When I was at the clubhouse, I gave them the clubhouse address.

On the NEN recording we never hear Zimmerman admit to Noffke that he didn't know the street name. This is the only time in the SPD interviews that he claimed to have done so.

I included the part about the clubhouse because it's pertinent to an earlier discussion. Zimmerman's recollections are clearly unreliable, but I know of no evidence that he was not at the clubhouse when he gave Noffke an address for it.

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #236 on: April 12, 2013, 10:16:45 PM »
I don't think that's been established. The officer who radioed in the tag number may have written down the location in his field notes. He certainly should have realized that it might be significant once he heard the vehicle was registered to Zimmerman.

I forget the rest of Officer B's last name but he might not have known at that point that the name of the shooter was Zimmerman, or even if he did he might not have realized the part played by the truck in that night's saga and that there was anything special about "exactly" where it was found.

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #237 on: April 12, 2013, 10:18:46 PM »
I'm not suggesting it wasn't Shellie's, but I didn't know there was any reason to think it was.

I've seen it said a few places that it was, but without a reference to a log or recording attached.

Offline MJW

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #238 on: April 12, 2013, 10:22:14 PM »
I forget the rest of Officer B's last name but he might not have known at that point that the name of the shooter was Zimmerman, or even if he did he might not have realized the part played by the truck in that night's saga and that there was anything special about "exactly" where it was found.

I think it would be very unlikely that the officers canvassing the area wouldn't know the name of the shooter.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #239 on: April 12, 2013, 10:22:36 PM »
He could have left it not exactly where he said/indicated but still in the same general area and they'd still have found it to run the tags.

I agree with the caveat that if had been in some location/position that indicated deception (as opposed to Zimmerman being off by a few yards which would be immaterial margin of error) someone would have mentioned it in a narrative or interveiw. That is, of course, IMHO.

They were looking for "outsider" vehicles, so when it came back registered to a resident it wasn't considered a big deal, so apparently the location wasn't made note of at the time, any more than was the location of the white Honda.

Are we certain of that? It sounded to me as if they were looking for Zimmerman's vehicle at the specific time of the tag request.

Quote
SPD: [unintelligible] Delta 28
DIS: Go ahead with your plate
SPD: Alpha Tango Tango 0 6 8
DIS: [unintelligible] Honda [unintelligible] expires 6/19/2012
SPD: Thank You
SPD: 2312 Bravo
DIS: Iím sorry?
SPD: Run a tag for me
DIS: Whatís the tag
SPD: Florida tag 816 Kilo Lima Papa, tell me if itís registered anywhere in Twin Lakes
DIS: Zimmerman
SPD: Thank You


Radio Traffic listen around 9:15.

One thing that seems strange to me is the considerable time in between finding the white Honda and the silver Honda truck.

15 minutes. I had not noticed that.

Has it ever been absolutely established that the white Honda was Shellie's?

At first, I put the two tags close in time together which made it seem unlikely that the two were related since the dispatcher only uses the last name. Now that seperation is apparent, that argument becomes less persuasive.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 10:24:32 PM by Cylinder »

 

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