Author Topic: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2  (Read 75602 times)

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Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #300 on: April 14, 2013, 12:06:47 AM »
;D ;D ;D  Agreed. Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee!

Which is entirely his right, but I wish he didn't insist on constantly reminding me of it.

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #301 on: April 14, 2013, 12:28:19 AM »
Zimmerman indicated some kind of delay, although he only mentioned it once. He never specifically said he was 'on hold'.

I agree that he never specified he was 'on hold', but he mentions a delay at least twice:

From here - Complete Transcript, Singleton Interview, 2nd Tape, 2/26/2012

Quote
Zimmerman: No, ma’am. I lost contact of him as I was trying to get through cause you have to…
Singleton: So does he continue past you?
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: OK. So he continues past you and you lose sight of him over here.
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: OK, so just draw an arrow where he continues to pass you.
Zimmerman: He continues to pass me through here…and then he goes down here. You want me to (unintelligible)…
Singleton: And then he goes somewhere here where you can’t see him.
Zimmerman: Correct.
Singleton: So just go to about where he, where you think he might have been be.., to where you lose sight of him.
Zimmerman: He started going here and then behind these houses.
Singleton: OK. And you could see that from here?
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: And then when he gets behind the houses you lose sight.
Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
Singleton: OK. And you said this, this….at some point he comes back and circles your car? Has he already done that?
Zimmerman: He looked into my vehicle…
Singleton: OK.
Zimmerman: But he didn’t circle it at that point in time.
Singleton: OK, when does he come…you’re still, you’re still in the car talking to 911, right?
Zimmerman: I’m trying to get through, yes ma’am.

He also mentions TM walking past him at the clubhouse in the Serino interview here: Link, as well as pulling into the clubhouse before calling the NEN.  If TM is approaching GZ, parked at the clubhouse, from the direction of Taaffe's house, TM would have to have been right on GZ's tail if he passes GZ at the clubhouse before the call connects to Noffke, unless there is a delay in the call connecting, or unless, for some reason, GZ didn't call right away when he pulled into the clubhouse (and waited for TM to walk by or something).  I say that because: 1) - Nothing GZ says at the beginning of the NEN call seems to indicate TM is walking past him (or has just walked past him), and 2) - I don't think there is enough time on the NEN call for TM to have passed GZ at the clubhouse (if for some reason GZ didn't mention that on the NEN call), then for GZ to have driven past TM onto TTL (not sure why GZ would have driven past him), and for TM to have paused ("He's here now, just staring", etc.), then to continue walking (from the clubhouse) towards a GZ parked further down on TTL ("Now he's coming towards me"), and to make it to the T ("sh*t, he's running).

http://imgur.com/ubvU2yr

For the above scenario to work out, GZ would have to have driven a good ways past TM on TTL as well, since "Now he's coming towards me", til the point it appears TM is past him is 35 seconds (from 0:55 to 1:30).  If TM is moving at a normal walking pace of 3 miles/hour, GZ would have to have driven approx ~150 feet past him for TM to have taken 35 seconds to reach and pass GZ's vehicle at that 3 m.p.h. speed.

The only way the NEN call and GZ's story makes sense is if there is a delay getting connected with Noffke initially.  If there is a delay, then the NEN call and GZ's story line up.  Things get so incredibly convoluted trying to make sense of it any other way.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 12:30:54 AM by Departure »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #302 on: April 14, 2013, 01:13:36 AM »
The only way the NEN call and GZ's story makes sense . . .

I am not convinced that the NEN call and Zimmerman's story can be combined in any way that makes sense.

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #303 on: April 14, 2013, 01:19:26 AM »
I am not convinced that the NEN call and Zimmerman's story can be combined in any way that makes sense.

I'm specifically referring to the parts of his story that he claims happened prior to the circling event (I believe the circling event happens from approx 0:55 to 1:30).

Depending on the length of the delay (if it exists at all) from the time GZ initially dials the NEN til the time he's connected to Noffke, and thus the time the call we're all familiar with begins recording, that part of the story can be quite acceptable/understandable, IMO.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #304 on: April 14, 2013, 01:51:06 AM »
Neither.

Zimmerman indicated some kind of delay, although he only mentioned it once. He never specifically said he was 'on hold'.

Right, George mentioned he was trying to get through during his interview.  I talked with George's brother about it a bit as well, which is where I got that he was on hold.

Offline AJ

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #305 on: April 14, 2013, 02:37:35 AM »
I believe he was placed on "hold". I did work for a short period of time as a 911 dispatcher (less than 6 months on the phones), but not for Sanford so I can't speak of their system specifically. If you recall, Sean Noffke also took the 911 call for W18. This leads me to believe that it is a single center where both non-emergency and 911 calls are dispatched from (it's not like this everywhere - in some places they do have different centers). When you call the non-emergency line you're placed in a queue that progresses based upon the speed of disposing the 911 calls. Again, I didn't work in Sanford, but if they have the same type of set up then that could (and probably does) explain the delay.

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #306 on: April 14, 2013, 02:45:25 AM »
I thought I remembered thinking that was Noffke's voice on the line with 18 and then reading later a different name on a report somewhere.

You know that old theater/ball game saying about "You can't tell the players without a program"?

Never more true.

Offline AJ

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #307 on: April 14, 2013, 02:58:01 AM »
I thought I remembered thinking that was Noffke's voice on the line with 18 and then reading later a different name on a report somewhere.

You know that old theater/ball game saying about "You can't tell the players without a program"?

Never more true.

After reviewing the W18 call, I'm not so sure it's him either.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #308 on: April 14, 2013, 03:15:24 AM »
W-18's call was taken by an L. Miller (21/33).

Noffke may have taken the call from W-15 (Sierra McLendon), but if so it was mislabeled as an NEN call (23/33).

I think it is true that the same dispatchers take both types of call. I think that was mentioned in a profile of Noffke that appeared in the media ages ago.

ETA: In the event reports, an NEN call should have 'TEL' after 'Call Source:'.
 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 03:18:29 AM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline AJ

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #309 on: April 14, 2013, 03:24:55 AM »
Noffke may have taken the call from W-15 (Sierra McLendon), but if so it was mislabeled as an NEN call (23/33).

That sounds more like him, and yes, it was probably mislabeled as the dispatcher answers the call as "911, do you need police, fire or medical?" and in the non-emergency call he says "Sanford Police Department, the line is being recorded, this is Sean"

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #310 on: April 14, 2013, 04:26:09 AM »
That sounds more like him, and yes, it was probably mislabeled as the dispatcher answers the call as "911, do you need police, fire or medical?" and in the non-emergency call he says "Sanford Police Department, the line is being recorded, this is Sean"

Agreed, sounds exactly like him to my ears.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #311 on: April 14, 2013, 08:34:09 AM »
I'm specifically referring to the parts of his story that he claims happened prior to the circling event (I believe the circling event happens from approx 0:55 to 1:30).

Depending on the length of the delay (if it exists at all) from the time GZ initially dials the NEN til the time he's connected to Noffke, and thus the time the call we're all familiar with begins recording, that part of the story can be quite acceptable/understandable, IMO.
Are you considering the possibility that there were two instances of Martin approaching Zimmerman's truck?  The first was at the clubhouse and is described in real time on the NEN call.  The second happened while Zimmerman was on TTL and Zimmerman didn't describe it then since he was busy, attempting to give an explanation where his car was at that point.  The first was never described as a circling, just an approach to check Zimmerman out.  The second was described as a circling in later interviews including the walk through. 

Offline unitron

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #312 on: April 14, 2013, 09:13:12 AM »
Are you considering the possibility that there were two instances of Martin approaching Zimmerman's truck?  The first was at the clubhouse and is described in real time on the NEN call.  The second happened while Zimmerman was on TTL and Zimmerman didn't describe it then since he was busy, attempting to give an explanation where his car was at that point.  The first was never described as a circling, just an approach to check Zimmerman out.  The second was described as a circling in later interviews including the walk through.

If he's at the clubhouse for any of that call and the "he's coming to check me out, I don't know what his deal is" bit is a description of a non-circling passing by, that doesn't leave a whole lot of time for Martin to disappear into the dark while Zimmerman drives down TTL and parks and then to come back out and circle before George announces that he's running and jumps out on foot.

Offline Departure

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #313 on: April 14, 2013, 02:00:01 PM »
Are you considering the possibility that there were two instances of Martin approaching Zimmerman's truck?  The first was at the clubhouse and is described in real time on the NEN call.  The second happened while Zimmerman was on TTL and Zimmerman didn't describe it then since he was busy, attempting to give an explanation where his car was at that point.  The first was never described as a circling, just an approach to check Zimmerman out.  The second was described as a circling in later interviews including the walk through.

I just had written a long, detailed explanation of how there wasn't enough time... but this forum likes to log you out after a relatively brief period of time.  Maybe I need to update my forum settings... ugh...

Anyway, like unitron said above, there wasn't enough time for the event that apparently concludes at 1:30 on the NEN call to have taken place at the clubhouse, AND for a circling event to have taken place later, somewhere along TTL, before the "sh*t, he's running" comment is made ~35 seconds afterward.

http://i.imgur.com/EjEQGyh.png

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Timelines and Routes, Thread 2
« Reply #314 on: April 14, 2013, 02:23:43 PM »
The second happened while Zimmerman was on TTL and Zimmerman didn't describe it then since he was busy, attempting to give an explanation where his car was at that point.

I've addressed that before. The timeline rules it out. If a passing at the clubhouse is what's reflected on the NEN recording, there isn't time for another one on TTL.

I think Zimmerman's voice on the NEN recording is at it's most tense on 'get an officer over here,' and at it's most relaxed during the directions. That would make a passing during the latter far-fetched, even without the timeline issue.

Quote
  The first was never described as a circling, just an approach to check Zimmerman out.

In the SPD interviews, Zimmerman said that Martin looked at him as the passed at the clubhouse. The 'coming to check me out' language is from the NEN recording. I don't Zimmerman alluded to it at any time in the SPD interviews.

 

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