Author Topic: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records  (Read 36494 times)

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Offline RickyJim

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #135 on: January 24, 2013, 07:03:12 PM »
Not if she called between 7:12:00 and 7:12:59. Her story is that at the time she called, Martin was still walking, and Zimmerman was following in his car.

DeeDee's account of what Martin did matches Zimmerman's NEN call, except her call to Martin occurs too early.

(I know nomatter_nevermind dislikes the Stately McDaniel Manor transcript, but it's the one I had handy)

I would assume that most people will find it reasonable that DeeDee could have unintentionally mixed and transposed the contents of several calls together.  She also could have misconstrued Martin telling her that he caught sight of Zimmerman passing along the top of the T as Z was "following" him.  She says nothing about when Zimmerman got out of the car and nothing to contradict that Martin doubled back to the T.  You have to read a lot into her story to find any support for the prosecution's case.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 07:06:18 PM by RickyJim »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #136 on: January 24, 2013, 07:06:30 PM »
I know nomatter_nevermind dislikes the Stately McDaniel Manor transcript, but it's the one I had handy

No issues relevant to our discussion.

One of de la Rionda's questions is omitted. It's the one that elicited 'He was on the phone.'

I've gone from thinking Dee Dee said 'it was still a little bit dripping water' to not feeling sure what the word is. I can't quarrel if someone hears 'startin'. SMM isn't the only one.

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #137 on: January 24, 2013, 07:16:12 PM »
I would assume that most people will find it reasonable that DeeDee could have unintentionally mixed and transposed the contents of several calls together.

There was only one call made while Zimmerman was present. What call could she mix it up with? The issue isn't just that what DeeDee says doesn't fit the actual timeline; it's also that it fits Singleton's incorrect timeline, which Crump probably had access to. There could be an innocent explanation, but it at least raises questions about DeeDee's account.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #138 on: January 24, 2013, 07:19:31 PM »
She also could have misconstrued Martin telling her that he caught sight of Zimmerman passing along the top of the T as Z was "following" him. You have to read a lot into her story to find any support for the prosecution's case.

Nonsense. You have to arbitrarily assume that Dee Dee misunderstood Martin to read the support out of her story.

You also have to ignore that Dee Dee indicated that Martin twice told her that Zimmerman was getting closer.

Dee Dee's story is clearly inconsistent with Zimmerman's account of Martin surprising him from behind. If both their stories are true, why didn't Zimmerman hear Martin talking to Dee Dee on the phone, before Martin spoke to Zimmerman?

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #139 on: January 24, 2013, 07:37:27 PM »
You also have to ignore that Dee Dee indicated that Martin twice told her that Zimmerman was getting closer.

Motion is relative.  I would ask her how she knows Trayvon wasn't moving back towards the man instead of the opposite.  I am still waiting to hear a reasonable DeeDee consistent theory of how the fight started at the T.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #140 on: January 24, 2013, 08:44:40 PM »
There was only one call made while Zimmerman was present. What call could she mix it up with? The issue isn't just that what DeeDee says doesn't fit the actual timeline; it's also that it fits Singleton's incorrect timeline, which Crump probably had access to. There could be an innocent explanation, but it at least raises questions about DeeDee's account.

^^This.  And he also had access to the NEN before the meeting w/Bonapart and the family to get the call released to the public.
IMO ALERT!
It is a lot easier to reconcile the calls if you have all the information beforehand.  He was using the wrong information.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #141 on: January 24, 2013, 09:48:45 PM »
I think the most likely scenario is that Zimmerman didn't exit his car until he saw Martin turn into the dog path at about 7:11:43.

Yes. From the NEN call, it seems to me that Zimmerman was in the process of exiting the truck as he was answering the question of which way Martin was running.

Quote
Martin didn't know that Zimmerman had gotten out of the car until he spotted Zimmerman in the T area

I don't know. It was all happening at once. Martin could have thrown a glance in that direction and seen that Zimmerman was starting to get out.

Quote
which I think was better lit than the dog path.

It would have been while Zimmerman's headlights were on. If Zimmerman walked through, as he claimed, I think they would have switched off well before he passed the corner of the building and became visible to someone far down dogwalk.

I've done an illustration to show that direct light from the nearest streetlight on TTL wouldn't reach the T. I haven't done the same for RVC, but I think it would be much the same. Zimmerman said he stayed on RVC trying to hit his flashlight because he didn't want to walk back through in the dark, suggesting it was dark around the T.

W-6 said his porch light was on before it all began. He also said it doesn't illuminate much beyond the patio. Other witnesses mentioned their porch lights, but I don't recall for sure if any others said theirs was on before the incident. I don't know if any porch lights were on nearer the T than W-6's unit.

The T may have been a bit less dark because of light from the streetlights reflected by the surroundings, but not by much I would think.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #142 on: January 25, 2013, 03:43:44 AM »
Motion is relative.  I would ask her how she knows Trayvon wasn't moving back towards the man instead of the opposite.

Response on W-8 thread.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #143 on: January 25, 2013, 08:21:25 AM »
If Susan Simpson at LL2 is correct, the call could have been as early as 7:11:01.

I find her statements unconvincing, using words like believe, think, could, etc.  Thats not to say I know she's wrong, but I don't see anything in her statements that leads me to believe she is correct.  I went to the TMobile site, but can't find anything definitive about call times of individual calls.  The other remarks I've heard on the calls from other sites seemed a little more convinced that TMobilie rounds start times down and end times up. 

Here is a link to a "wireless forums" site where a few users talk about TMobile billing and the 2-minute overcharge (unrelated to Martin/Zimmerman case). 

http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-cellular-t-mobile/tmobile-rip-off-72096.html

There was another site where a user complained that they had used exactly 6.44 minutes of call time, but had been billed for 14 minutes.  There is also a yahoo users group for TMobile users, but you have to subscribe and I'm too lazy to go that far.  The fact that these users have documented that they have calls that were billed for over a minute more than what they used tells me that Ms. Simpson's theory of rounding is incorrect. If you used her rounding theory, you could only be charged for 1 extra minute at most.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #144 on: January 25, 2013, 09:00:37 AM »
Hmm, I don't understand your argument, Leftwig.  You can have 14 calls, each lasting less than a minute, totaling 6:44 minutes overall.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #145 on: January 25, 2013, 09:19:41 AM »
I do agree that a person could have a bunch of sub 30 second calls which would cause their minutes to be skewed.  I am assuming from the person complaining, they know they didn't have a bunch of calls that short.

Did you look at the link provided?  It provides better detail and actual data from a TMobile user.  The first user mentioned these specific call times:

3 min 33 sec call today : Tmobile log shows a 5 min call
5 min 55 sec call today : Tmobile log shows a 7 min call

If using Susan's theory (start and stop times rounded up or down depending on which minute they are closest to resulting in billing being off by at most :59 seconds), Tmobile would never bill a 3 min 33 second call at 5 minutes.  You'd have to use the rounding theory that calls are rounded down to the minute for start time and up to the minute for stop time.

A theory is offered that the time is off because of call being placed versus call being connected (TMobile starts at the former and phone shows latter), but I'd think 27 seconds would be way to long to account for someone to answer their phone and it would have to be that the call started at just the wrong time to get the extra minute billed.  This user also mention that roughly 25% of their calls are charged at more than a minute longer than the call lasts. 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 09:24:30 AM by leftwig »

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #146 on: January 25, 2013, 09:35:08 AM »
Ok, I buy the round down for start and round up for end theory; phone companies have to make a buck, ya know.  How does this change the analysis of the DeeDee/Trayvon calls?

Offline leftwig

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #147 on: January 25, 2013, 11:00:37 AM »
Ok, I buy the round down for start and round up for end theory; phone companies have to make a buck, ya know.  How does this change the analysis of the DeeDee/Trayvon calls?

I guess for starters, it would mean that Dee Dee's last call would have to have started after TM ran, not before as she details.   I guess one could chalk it up to misremembering which I don't think is out of the question but it would certainly be called out as an inconsistency. 

It would also mean that the last call ended between 7:15:01 and 7:16:00.  If it can be determined that the call ended at the front of that window, it would call into question exactly how much she heard of the exchange. Dee Dee said she stayed on the line after words were exchanged and could hear some bumping and a "little bit of get off" which means the call was still open.   Given other witness statements about how long it took for arguing words to turn to wrestling noises and eventually screams for help (none of which Dee Dee heard) that prompted calls to 911, it seems evident that the start of this activity started in the latter half of that window.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #148 on: January 25, 2013, 02:22:47 PM »
The fact that these users have documented that they have calls that were billed for over a minute more than what they used tells me that Ms. Simpson's theory of rounding is incorrect.

What theory?

Simpson talks about calls being 'wrongly recorded', not 'rounded'.

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #149 on: January 25, 2013, 02:27:57 PM »
There is no end time on T-Mobile bills. There's a start time and a call length. I cited a T-Mobile technical support webpage saying the call length is rounded up to the next minute. I also pointed out that for some users the start time determines the amount charged for the call. That only works properly if the start time is rounded down.

 

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