Author Topic: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records  (Read 41619 times)

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Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #150 on: January 25, 2013, 02:39:36 PM »
What theory?

Simpson talks about calls being 'wrongly recorded', not 'rounded'.

But since she doesn't specify her criteria for the right time, it's nearly meaningless. I find it difficult to believe she's using the time displayed on the phone, and if she's using some other time, why did she think that was the proper standard? Did she just look at her watch? I also don't believe T-Mobile times would differ more than a second or so (at most) from the international time standard.

Here's an experiment for someone with T-Mobile to try. Synchronize your computer with the internet time standard, then compare the time on the phone with the computer's time, waiting for the minute change over. I did that with a non-T-Mobile phone, and they appeared to be almost exactly synchronized.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #151 on: January 25, 2013, 04:06:12 PM »
Here's an experiment for someone with T-Mobile to try. Synchronize your computer with the internet time standard, then compare the time on the phone with the computer's time, waiting for the minute change over. I did that with a non-T-Mobile phone, and they appeared to be almost exactly synchronized.

My phone is also not T-Mobile. I found that it is about 45 seconds ahead of the synchronized internet time.

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #152 on: January 25, 2013, 06:01:45 PM »
My phone is also not T-Mobile. I found that it is about 45 seconds ahead of the synchronized internet time.

I must say, I find that very surprising. My phone changed over at, as afar as I could tell, exactly the same moment. Not that I doubt you'd do it correctly, but you did do the Adjust Date/Time "update now" stuff first, I assume
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 06:06:59 PM by MJW »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #153 on: January 25, 2013, 06:19:27 PM »
Not that I doubt you'd do it correctly, but you did do the Adjust Date/Time "update now" stuff first, I assume

Yes. It's the first time I've done it, and I had to look up the directions. But they're pretty simple, and I got the confirmation that the clock was synchronized.

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #154 on: January 25, 2013, 06:25:52 PM »
Yes. It's the first time I've done it, and I had to look up the directions. But they're pretty simple, and I got the confirmation that the clock was synchronized.

Again, I'm very surprised. Perhaps other people can try it with their phones.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #155 on: January 26, 2013, 09:18:18 AM »
What theory?

Simpson talks about calls being 'wrongly recorded', not 'rounded'.

Her theory was that a call that showed a start time of 7:12 could have started anywhere from 7:11:30 to 7:12:29 and if it was listed as a 4 minute call would have ended any time from 7:15:30 to 7:16:29.  Her theory appears to be incorrect according to what others have said.

Offline unitron

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #156 on: January 26, 2013, 01:33:14 PM »
But since she doesn't specify her criteria for the right time, it's nearly meaningless. I find it difficult to believe she's using the time displayed on the phone, and if she's using some other time, why did she think that was the proper standard? Did she just look at her watch? I also don't believe T-Mobile times would differ more than a second or so (at most) from the international time standard.

Here's an experiment for someone with T-Mobile to try. Synchronize your computer with the internet time standard, then compare the time on the phone with the computer's time, waiting for the minute change over. I did that with a non-T-Mobile phone, and they appeared to be almost exactly synchronized.

She made calls with her T-Mobile phone, noting the start and stop times.

Then she compared those to the billing statement and found that what was on the billing statement was "an approximation" of those actual times.

In other words, just because Tracy Martin's bill said Trayvon's last call started at 7:12 doesn't mean it started exactly at 7:12.

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #157 on: January 26, 2013, 02:37:15 PM »
She made calls with her T-Mobile phone, noting the start and stop times.

The time based on the time her phone displayed? the time on her watch? the time on her computer? the time from WWV?

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #158 on: January 26, 2013, 04:18:57 PM »
The only thing we have to go on is the records that Tracy Martin submitted to NBC.  We have never actually seen the records that were submitted by TMobile to Prosecution/Defense.  Aren't those protected?

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #159 on: January 26, 2013, 05:18:21 PM »
The only thing we have to go on is the records that Tracy Martin submitted to NBC.  We have never actually seen the records that were submitted by TMobile to Prosecution/Defense.  Aren't those protected?

Most unfortunately, we haven't seen the records, which are supposedly protected from release by Florida's telecommunication privacy laws. I'm not at all convinced that if the news media went after those records as vigorously as they went after W9's interviews, they couldn't get them released with the names and phone numbers redacted.

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #160 on: January 26, 2013, 10:51:59 PM »
My phone is also not T-Mobile. I found that it is about 45 seconds ahead of the synchronized internet time.

I looked into the issue a little more, and I found that the time on a cellphone, like the time on a computer is periodically updated from a time standard, but in between times it uses an internal clock. That may explain why your phone wasn't in sync with your computer.

I don't use my cellphone too often, so when I turned it on yesterday, it probably re-synched. Perhaps your phone hasn't synched up for a while, and has drifted off the correct time. I don't know the details of when phones re-sync. I did find and article about cellphone time that, among other interesting information, says BlackBerries sync when activated, but also sync to a computer they're connected to. I also found another article that says, "Cell phone networks and the U.S. Naval Observatory Clock use the same time standard to ensure accuracy."

Your phone probably has a setting to automatically update the time every so often. You can force the cellphone to update its clock by tuning it off and taking out the battery for a minute or so. When you put the battery back in and turn the phone on, it will have to update the time. (I don't necessarily expect you to try this.)



Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #161 on: January 26, 2013, 11:39:12 PM »
But since she doesn't specify her criteria for the right time, it's nearly meaningless. I find it difficult to believe she's using the time displayed on the phone, and if she's using some other time, why did she think that was the proper standard? Did she just look at her watch? I also don't believe T-Mobile times would differ more than a second or so (at most) from the international time standard.

Based on what I just said about time synchronization between the phone and the network, I now doubt the correctness of the bolded part of that comment.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #162 on: January 27, 2013, 04:44:36 AM »
You can force the cellphone to update its clock by tuning it off and taking out the battery for a minute or so.

Just so.

I gave the phone a few unpowered minutes, then synchronized the computer clock again before comparing. The phone was behind by 3-4 seconds.

Quote
I don't necessarily expect you to try this.

Does taking the battery out void the warranty?

It's an old phone. The warranty probably expired years ago. If it malfunctions I'll get a new one.

ETA: It surprises me that the cell phone settings menu doesn't include a command for re-synching the phone time.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 04:49:12 AM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #163 on: January 27, 2013, 07:03:13 AM »
My wife has T-Mobile and a smartphone so I did some tests. One new thing I learned is that if I make a call let's say 15 seconds before the top of the minute and end the call 15 seconds after that top of the minute i.e. 7:15:45 to 7:16:15, they do not count that as a 2 minute call as I was previously under impression. It is still counted only as a 1 minute call.

Below are the times I placed a call, the information on the phones call log and the information on T-Mobile's website on my wife's account. I even looked at it in File>Print Preview as we see with Trayvon's phone records.

Time ref.
http://nist.time.gov/

The time on my pc is aprx 4 seconds ahead of that site.

The time on my wife's phone is less than a second behind that site.

6:11:30
Call Log 6:11 10sec Outgoing
T-Mobile 6:11 1min

6:20:15, answered 6:20:30, ended cell and landline 6:20:44,
Call Log 6:20 14sec Outgoing
T-Mobile 6:20 1min

6:25:45 to 6:26:15
Call Log 6:25 21sec Outgoing
T-Mobile 6:25 1min

6:29:00 to 6:29:55
Call Log 6:29 55sec Outgoing
T-Mobile 6:29 1min

7:00:00 to 7:04:15(I called at exactly 7:00:00 but waited 14 seconds to answer the cell)
Call Log 7:00 4m1s Incoming
T-Mobile 7:00 5min

7:24:50 to 7:25:31
Call Log 7:24 41sec Incoming
T-Mobile 7:24 1min

Offline unitron

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #164 on: January 27, 2013, 08:55:51 AM »
My wife has T-Mobile and a smartphone so I did some tests. One new thing I learned is that if I make a call let's say 15 seconds before the top of the minute and end the call 15 seconds after that top of the minute i.e. 7:15:45 to 7:16:15, they do not count that as a 2 minute call as I was previously under impression. It is still counted only as a 1 minute call.

Below are the times I placed a call, the information on the phones call log and the information on T-Mobile's website on my wife's account. I even looked at it in File>Print Preview as we see with Trayvon's phone records.

Time ref.
http://nist.time.gov/

The time on my pc is aprx 4 seconds ahead of that site.

The time on my wife's phone is less than a second behind that site.

6:11:30
Call Log 6:11 10sec Outgoing
T-Mobile 6:11 1min

6:20:15, answered 6:20:30, ended cell and landline 6:20:44,
Call Log 6:20 14sec Outgoing
T-Mobile 6:20 1min

6:25:45 to 6:26:15
Call Log 6:25 21sec Outgoing
T-Mobile 6:25 1min

6:29:00 to 6:29:55
Call Log 6:29 55sec Outgoing
T-Mobile 6:29 1min

7:00:00 to 7:04:15(I called at exactly 7:00:00 but waited 14 seconds to answer the cell)
Call Log 7:00 4m1s Incoming
T-Mobile 7:00 5min

7:24:50 to 7:25:31
Call Log 7:24 41sec Incoming
T-Mobile 7:24 1min


 7:15:45 to 7:16:15 is only 30 seconds.

If they tried to charge that as 2 minutes customers would show up with pitchforks and torches.

 But 7:15:45 to 7:16:46 will probably get billed as 2 minutes.

 

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