Author Topic: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records  (Read 39242 times)

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Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #165 on: January 27, 2013, 11:26:13 AM »
Does taking the battery out void the warranty?

I don't believe removing the battery voids the warranty or has any other ill-effect, but some people are very reluctant to do anything that might conceivably cause them to lose some data stored on their phone.

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #166 on: January 27, 2013, 11:45:31 AM »
My wife has T-Mobile and a smartphone so I did some tests.

Thanks very much for doing this. It's what Susan Simpson should have done.

I think it shows is that the T-Mobile time is probably quite accurate, the start time is the call time rounded down, and the call length is the time the call lasted rounded up.

One additional test that might be interesting is to call several seconds before the minute, and answer several seconds after the minute. My guess is that the start time depends on when the phone is answered.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #167 on: January 27, 2013, 01:11:51 PM »
Thanks very much for doing this. It's what Susan Simpson should have done.

I think it shows is that the T-Mobile time is probably quite accurate, the start time is the call time rounded down, and the call length is the time the call lasted rounded up.

One additional test that might be interesting is to call several seconds before the minute, and answer several seconds after the minute. My guess is that the start time depends on when the phone is answered.

Thanks. My wife went out so I'll have to do that and some other tests later but I believe you are correct. That stuff with the cell phone and time can get confusing. As far as I understand the connection for the call would be between 7:12:00 to 7:12:59. If it connected before that, say at 7:11:59, it would say 7:11 on the bill.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 01:13:43 PM by DiwataMan »

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #168 on: January 27, 2013, 10:38:02 PM »
I found an interesting internet article on T-Mobile billing practices. According to the article:

Quote
TMO bills for connected calls from SEND to END. Calls are rounded up to the next minute. So if you call a friend and their answering machine picks up in 30 seconds, and then you end the call, that will be a 1 minute call.

If you REJECT a call it will count as a 1 minute call. If you just let it ring and then forward to voicemail on its own then it will NOT count as a 1 minute call or appear in your call detail. You have 500 additional minutes for those type of forwarded calls (called Conditional Call Forwarding). But, if you should exceed 500 minutes then you start using your bucket of whenever minutes or if out of minutes are billed as overage and then it will appear on your call detail. It is highly unusual for most people to run out. Calls forwarded during you free periods (if any) don't use up your 500 Conditional Call Forwarding minutes. A forwarded T-Mobile-to-T-Mobile call is no longer counted as a T-Mobile-to-T-Mobile call.

If the article is correct that calls are billed from "send to end," then I would expect the start time of an outgoing call to be the time the call was placed, not the time it was answered. That may also explain why a call that lasted three minutes could be billed as five minutes.

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #169 on: January 27, 2013, 11:00:07 PM »
More (perhaps boring) T-Mobile billing info. From T-Mobile Terms and Conditions:

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We round up any fraction of a minute to the next full minute. Airtime usage is measured from the time the network begins to process a call (before the phone rings or the call is answered) through its termination of the call (after you hang up). Unless otherwise specified in your Rate Plan, the rate for a call (such as nights and weekend rates) is determined by the time the call starts, and that rate applies to the entire call. If we cannot determine the time of your call, we may base the time on the local time associated with your billing address. For some products, such as FlexPay and Prepaid, each minute of a call will be billed according to the time or day applicable to that minute (for example, different rates may apply in one call if the call extends into nights or weekends). T-Mobile-to-T-Mobile calls are those made between T-Mobile customers using their Devices while on the T-Mobile network (and not off-network or roaming on affiliate networks). You may be charged for more than one call/message when you use certain features resulting in multiple inbound or outbound calls/messages (such as call forwarding, call waiting, voicemail, conference calling, and multi-party messaging).

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #170 on: January 27, 2013, 11:05:31 PM »
One more thing. Non-completed calls aren't charged. From a message from T-Mobile customer service:

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Dear ----:

Thank you for your email and for your continued support of T-Mobile. In response to your question, T-Mobile does not charge our customers for unanswered calls. In order for you to experience a "billed call" a call must be completed (ie. picked up or otherwise accepted).

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. Thank you.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #171 on: January 28, 2013, 01:38:39 PM »
Did a couple more test calls. I tried rejecting an incoming call twice and both times after hitting the reject call button it automatically went to voice mail and did not show up on the T-mobile site. I don't know why it goes to voice mail when rejecting the call maybe just my wife set it up that way or something, I don't know. And yes, it is shown that placing a call before the top of the minute and answered after the top of the minute will result in a time shown on the bill as the time the call was placed and not necessarily answered.

So technically speaking Trayvon could have answered the 7:12 call sometime after 7:13.

12:40:45 to 12:41:15
Call Log 12:40 1m23s
T-Mobile 12:40 2min

Place an outgoing call at 1:06:50, answered at 1:07:10, ended call 1:07:20
Call Log 1:06 10sec
T-Mobile 106 1m

Incoming call at 1:11:50, answered at 1:12:10, ended call 1:12:20
Call Log 1:11 10sec
T-Mobile 1:11 1min

Offline MJW

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #172 on: January 28, 2013, 02:18:04 PM »
Did a couple more test calls.

Thanks again for doing these tests. The last one, with the incoming call, is especially interesting because I don't recall reading anything about the send-to-end rule the specifically addressed what happens for incoming calls. Apparently for both incoming and outgoing completed calls, the call time includes all the time the T-Mobile network is active and the start time is the time the network was first used.

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #173 on: January 31, 2013, 11:05:06 AM »
MoM is now saying that the state has successfully unlocked Trayvon's cellphone and retrieved a "trove" of information, and that he's been given this info by the state with one notable gap-- the records for 2/26/12:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-trayvon-cell-phone-new-tests-20130131,0,4945051.story

In the OS article, they allege that "CelleBrite Forensics [...] successfully unlocked the data in its flash memory, including GPS information that showed its changing locations. What it found has not been made public."

They then quoted MoM as saying, "It shows you within 10 feet where the phone is."

Since I have never owned a cellphone, I have to ask: How does the GPS work? Does it keep a running record of where the phone is at all times, or is it only activated when the phone is in use? And if it's the latter, how often during the phone activity does it record location?

If it's really true that these records can tell where Trayvon was on 2/26 "within 10 feet," this could be a bombshell.

If the records for 2/26 have mysteriously "disappeared," it's an even bigger bombshell.

Either way, I expect Nelson to respond to MoM's motion for the release of the full records with, "But did you ask Mr. de la Rionda first?"
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 11:10:53 AM by Evil Chinchilla »

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #174 on: January 31, 2013, 11:12:38 AM »
Would the same "within 10 feet" also pinpoint Zimmerman's movements during the NEN call?  If so, it would certainly settle a lot of arguments we have had here.  ;)

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #175 on: January 31, 2013, 11:39:28 AM »
MoM's motions for the 2/5/13 hearing allege that the SAO removed Trayvon's cellphone from the FDLE and sent it for info recovery. He also indicates that he hasn't been able to depose W8 yet.

I may be cynical, but I have a feeling that the cellphone records from 2/26 are being withheld from MoM until after W8 has been deposed by him, and will subsequently be made available.

Since W8 was strangely silent until after Crump had the NEN and 911 calls and other info, I think what W8 says in all future narratives will have "newly remembered" details added from those cellphone records.

Of course, strictly IMO.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #176 on: January 31, 2013, 02:06:47 PM »
He also indicates that he hasn't been able to depose W8 yet.

He doesn't want to depose W-8 until he has all the information he needs to prepare for it. That's probably what you meant, but putting it that way can be misleading/confusing. It sounds like he's ready to depose W-8, and something is specifically preventing that.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #177 on: February 03, 2013, 06:18:41 AM »
Thanks again for doing these tests. The last one, with the incoming call, is especially interesting because I don't recall reading anything about the send-to-end rule the specifically addressed what happens for incoming calls. Apparently for both incoming and outgoing completed calls, the call time includes all the time the T-Mobile network is active and the start time is the time the network was first used.

Diwata, I was wondering if you can listen to, edit or delete messages and texts from your home computer if you don't have the benefit of having your cell phone in hand.

Offline turbo6

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #178 on: February 06, 2013, 07:34:34 PM »
I have T Mobile, and from what I recall, as I don't use the online account access that often, is that you may be able to view texts online, perhaps listen to voicemails but I don't think you can DELETE texts or other multimedia info from a home computer as all that stuff is stored on the SIM card or internal memory.

You might be able to access voicemail from a landline and delete stuff, but that likely requires a PIN/password etc.

GPS stuff gets tricky and maybe there are experts on that lurking but, I don't think T mobile can necessarily pin point you at all times. Might be able to give a rough location via a ping from the closest tower but thats about it.

I actually had my T Mobile cell phone stolen about a year about, they had no idea as to the location of it. I dunno if the rep was clueless but they didn't seem able to provide me with anything more than incoming call times and such. They suggested the use of a tracking app in the future. I installed it once the warranty-ed phone arrived but even with GPS assisted tracking software I found it to be horribly inaccurate.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Trayvon Martin's Cellphone Records
« Reply #179 on: March 13, 2013, 07:31:44 AM »
Trayvon Martin's cellphone records are important in establishing the timeline. Because Judge Lester has ruled that Florida law prohibits the release of telecommunications records, the only records we have are those released by Crump. The records are in a rather confusing order, so I reordered them to make them easier to understand. I also tried to determine which calls were from DeeDee. I'm particularly uncertain about the calls marked with question marks, but put them with the DeeDee calls.  Both the beginning and ending times are rounded in some unknown (to me) fashion by T-Mobile. My current best guess is:

The calls and texts are:
2:13 text from Hollywood, FL
2:15 text to North Dade (DeeDee?)
2:18 text from North Dade (DeeDee?)
2:20-2:23 (3 min. - to Martin from non-T-Mobile)
2:38-4:21 (103 min. - to Martin from DeeDee)
2:45-2:47 (2 min. - to Martin from T-Mobile)
3:02-3:04 (2 min. - to Martin from non-T-Mobile)
3:04-3:07 (3 min. - to Martin from non-T-Mobile)
4:30 text from Miami, FL
4:28-5:09 (41 min. - from Martin to DeeDee)
5:09-6:30 (81 min. - from Martin to DeeDee)
6:30-6:43 (13 min. - from Martin to DeeDee)
6:41-6:44 (4 min. - to Martin from T-Mobile)
6:45-6:50 (5 min. - from Martin to DeeDee)
6:46-6:48 (2 min - from Martin to North Dade non-T-Mobile)
6:49-6:53 (4 min. - to Martin from DeeDee)
6:53-6:54 (1 min. - from Martin to North Dade T-Mobile (DeeDee?))
6:54-6:55 (1 min. - from Martin to North Dade T-Mobile (DeeDee?))
6:54-7:12 (18 min. - to Martin from DeeDee)
7:04-7:05 (1 min. - to Martin from non-T-Mobile)
7:08 text from North Dade (DeeDee?)
7:12-7:16 (4 min. - to Martin from DeeDee)

------

The possible DeeDee calls and texts are:
2:15 text to DeeDee (?)
2:18 text from DeeDee (?)
2:38-4:21 (103 min. - to Martin)
4:28-5:09 (41 min. - from Martin)
5:09-6:30 (81 min. - from Martin)
6:30-6:43 (13 min. - from Martin)
6:45-6:50 (5 min. - from Martin)
6:49-6:53 (4 min. - to Martin)
6:53-6:54 (1 min. - from Martin to North Dade T-Mobile) (?)
6:54-6:55 (1 min. - from Martin to North Dade T-Mobile) (?)
6:54-7:12 (18 min. - to Martin)
7:08 text from DeeDee (?)
7:12-7:16 (4 min. - to Martin)

The non-DeeDee calls and texts are:
2:13 text from Hollywood, FL
2:20-2:23 (3 min. - to Martin from non-T-Mobile)
2:45-2:47 (2 min. - to Martin from T-Mobile)
3:02-3:04 (2 min. - to Martin from non-T-Mobile)
3:04-3:07 (3 min. - to Martin from non-T-Mobile)
4:30 text from Miami, FL
6:41-6:44 (4 min. - to Martin from T-Mobile)
6:46-6:48 (2 min. - from Martin to North Dade non-T-Mobile)
7:04-7:05 (1 min. - to Martin from non-T-Mobile)

------

Chad said he called Martin, and Martin told him he was on his way home. This was probably either the 4 minute T-Mobile call at 6:41 or the 1 minute non-T-Mobile call at 7:04.

------

The attribution of the text messages to DeeDee is based on this exchange from the interview by de la Rionda:

BDLR:  Again, Iím sorry to have to ask you this. Um...did...when this was going on...Iím talking about that day, February 26, did Trayvon send you any text messages?
DeeDee:  I...one...like...  [Texts at 2:15 and 2:18?]
BDLR:  You know, like, Iím going to the store, or did he ever text you and say, like, this guyís following me, or did he just tell you that?
DeeDee: He just tell me.
BDLR:  OK, then he never texted you that...this all that youíve told me.
DeeDee: Mmm-mmm [No].
BDLR:  Did you ever text him...during this time?
DeeDee: Like when the phone just hung up?
BDLR:  Yeah.
DeeDee: Yeah. [Text at 7:08.]

DeeDee's answer to the question of whether Martin send her a text message isn't quite clear. She could mean one text was sent in all, not that Martin sent her one.

SO if W8 was on Simple Mobile and Not T Mobile, MJW needs to put his nose to the grindstone and rework this...RIGHT NOW!
((INSERT HUGE SMILIE ICON))

 

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