Author Topic: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection  (Read 16884 times)

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Offline Redbrow

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2012, 10:42:38 PM »
Tracy again states "he was sitting out in the back" during a different interview @1:43.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pvLn28SkzPQ

"I feel it was a coverup from the beginning. Honestly, I feel that they are hiding something. What is it they're hiding? I don't know. Why they're protecting him so much? I have no idea"
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 10:48:41 PM by Redbrow »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2012, 11:34:10 PM »
As for TM, Dee Dee says he passes GZ's car on TTL

Dee Dee didn't mention any street name, and she didn't say Martin passed Zimmerman's car.

Quote
checks him out

So said Crump. It's not in the SAO interview.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2012, 12:00:03 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pvLn28SkzPQ

Disappointing camera work. Tracy Martin pointed out the clubhouse and the mailboxes, and the camera stayed on him the whole time. It wasn't for a second turned to show the things Martin was pointing to.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2012, 12:35:20 AM »
Tracy again states "he was sitting out in the back" during a different interview @1:43.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pvLn28SkzPQ

To me it sounds more like 'We was sitting out on the back.' But the consonant is hard to hear because the wind rises at that moment.

'He was trying to get home. Right down the street. [Unintelligible] was sitting out on the back.'

If Trayvon was 'sitting out on the back' minutes before the shooting, wouldn't that mean that he did get home? What did Tracy mean by 'trying to get home'?

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2012, 01:30:30 AM »
Don't place much reliance on Tracy's walk-through. He says he's guessing and the police never actually walked him through it. He's going by the 911 calls and what Zimmerman had said on his call.

Also, note that he says he thinks he came in through the gate (which he didn't, he used the cut through by Taaffe's house at 1460 RVC) and he thinks he went down the front of Twin Trees Lane and crossed over to the shared path between houses at the break.

That was one of my possible scenarios.  However, it could turn out to be the state's as well. In the second batch of photographs released of the scene (not the one this week, but the ones by the FDLE a few batches ago), there were a lot of photos of the front and back of 1251 Twin Trees Lane (the house at the break.) The back has a screened porch like 1211 TTL and there have been no reports of witness interviews from that residence.

The question would be, if he did go the route Tracy suggests, did he turn right or left when he got to the shared path? His house was to the right, and the T to the left.


Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2012, 02:04:30 AM »
he used the cut through by Taaffe's house at 1460 RVC

There is no evidence for that. It's a guess based on Zimmerman's claim that he first saw Martin in front of 1460. Zimmerman didn't say he saw Martin enter the neighborhood. If Zimmerman's account is accurate, Martin could have come in the front gate and walked west to 1460.

Dee Dee's SAO interview implies that Martin was caught in the rain outside the complex, and then he ran into the complex and kept running to the mail shade. To me that seems to fit better with Martin entering through the front gate.

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he thinks he went down the front of Twin Trees Lane and crossed over to the shared path between houses at the break.

0:40-50
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Tracy Martin: The easiest path to get to home, from there, is if Trayvon came straight down here, walked down this sidewalk [pointing E on TTL], and then down the back sidewalk.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 02:15:13 AM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2012, 03:51:04 AM »
The walk through video has some more interesting features.

Tracy Martin indicated that Trayvon's body was found close to the line between the back yards of W-3 and W-6, about twenty feet south of where it actually was. (1:21-29)

1:30-38
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Tracy Martin: There wasn't even a football length's field, football field length, away from the back door. About seventy yards. Seventy yards at best.

Even the place Tracy indicated was over a hundred yards from Brandy Green's back door.

The 'seventy yards' estimate has been all over the media. The earliest appearance I know of was on CBS This Morning on March 8. It appeared the next day in the Miami Herald. (I had links to both in my notes, but they no longer work.)

Another Miami Herald article, on March 31, attributed it to Police Chief Bill Lee, so it may have originated with the SPD.

2:05-8
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Tracy Martin: If he had two more minutes, his life would have been spared.

If Trayvon was sitting on the patio, what did he need two minutes for?

One minute would have been more than enough time for Martin to walk from the shooting site to Brandy Green's back door.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2012, 05:30:59 AM »
The chase mentioned in the PC has to be based on W2's statements . . . I think at one stage she narrowed it down some more.

In her March 20 FDLE interview, W2 repeated a few times that she saw 'a' person and 'the' person. In the same statement, she said that she only took a 'glance' out the window.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2012, 06:47:30 AM »
Here is Tracy Martin explaining Trayvon's route. He says Trayvon "did come in that back gate and I knew he was going to the back of the house...HE WAS SITTING OUT THERE."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=x34vSJrIqe0#!


This seems to confirm Brandy Greens statement that "he was sitting out on the porch."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBySHhZftr8

Did they find something belonging to Trayvon or did someone tell them? Who could have informed them that Trayvon was on the porch just before the confrontation?

Has anybody tried writing to somebody with access to Tracy to ask him?  I once wrote to Rene Stutzman, who I assume was the interviewer, on another matter, but never got a reply.  My guess is that Trayvon liked to sit on the back porch and that image overwhelmed Tracy and Brandy.  It could be that they were misinterpreting something Chad, who was playing video games in his room on the RVC side of the house during the incident, told them.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2012, 06:56:29 AM »
I don't know. She didn't say.

Fair enough, we don't know for certain exactly what she meant.  Given her context, I take it to mean she believed TM was sitting there that evening, not several days earlier.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2012, 07:17:04 AM »

Dee Dee didn't mention any street name, and she didn't say Martin passed Zimmerman's car.

So said Crump. It's not in the SAO interview.

She said TM was taking shelter under the mail thingy and noticed a man watching him.  Is there any other street GZ could have been on other than TTL where he could have been observing TM under the mail thingy?  Just because she didn't say GZ was on TTL at this time, doesn't mean we can't infer it from her statements.

Dee Dee recounts several details that make it clear TM was in close proximity to Z's car.  Also, she describes GZ  being behind TM in his car.  Since there is no chance GZ was behind TM as he was standing under the mail thingy, it seems to reason that TM passed GZ's car for him to be able to be following.  Granted, Dee Dee doesn't utter the exact words, "TM passed his car", but I don't see how TM gets ahead of GZ's car to be followed unless TM passes his car.

I am not saying there is proof this is what occurred that night (GZ's version is different), but its what Dee Dee is telling us.  I don't know how much weight we should give her statements, but they are evidence.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2012, 07:29:31 AM »
In her March 20 FDLE interview, W2 repeated a few times that she saw 'a' person and 'the' person. In the same statement, she said that she only took a 'glance' out the window.

I thought W2 might have narrowed it down to one person but I can't listen to the audio anymore and I didn't want to make a statement without anyway to back it up.   There are so many rumors out there so I didn't want to repeat one of those if that was where I was remembering the information.

IF, an that is a HUGE IF, Martin did progress further down TTL before cutting over as Tracy Martin seemed to believe at one time, wouldn't that be a positive factor in Zimmerman's favor?  It would negate that GZ was following him by vehicle since his truck was parked further north behind the houses on RVC.

Honestly, I think he parked close to where he saw TM disappear which explains the position of his truck and why it was parked against the flow of traffic before the second bend in the street.

Working from my memory ain't that much fun.


Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2012, 07:30:15 AM »
Bernie de la Rionda tried to get Dee to admit that Zimmerman got out of the car to chase Trayvon Martin and that Martin had seen that.

That was the question on which de la Rionda got frantic to tell Dee Dee it was OK to say 'no.'

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  She basically told him "No.  He said he lost him."

Basically, Dee Dee said 'I think so'. And, responding to this particular question, she didn't say a word about Martin losing Zimmerman.

14:31-15:42
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De la Rionda: Did he ever say something else about that, like, whether the guy had gotten out of the car? Did he ever describe, "Yeah, the guy, now, he's out of the car, and he's chasing me"? I know you said the guy, he said, the guy was following, but did he ever say the guy got out of the car?

Dee Dee: You want that too?

De la Rionda: I want to know the truth, whether, did he say that or not. If he didn't say that, that's fine. I mean, I don't, I don't need to know [crosstalk].

Dee Dee: Like, when he like, walking.

De la Rionda: I know Trayvon is, is running, right, or walking?

Dee Dee: Yeah.

De la Rionda: My question is did Trayvon ever describe to you, "hey"? You know how, like, if I see a football game, I say "Yeah, the guy was running fast", or "The guy", you know, "ran to the left." Did he ever  [crosstalk]

Dee Dee: When he was at the, the mail thing.

De la Rionda: Yeah.

Dee Dee: The man was on the phone.

De la Rionda: Right.

Dee Dee: [Unintelligible] was telling me.

De la Rionda: I'm sorry, what, what?

Dee Dee: He's telling me the man was on the phone. He put his hoodie on.

De la Rionda: Right.

Dee Dee: So, the man was still in the car. Then, Trayvon started walking. Then he said, I think the man got off, for some reason. Because he said -

De la Rionda: That's what you believe? 

Dee Dee: Yeah.

De la Rionda: OK.

Dee Dee: Because he said the man was still following him.

De la Rionda: OK, so he didn't say, like, the man got out?

Dee Dee: No.

De la Rionda: You just believe that?

Dee Dee: Yeah.

De la Rionda: But Trayvon didn't tell you the man got out of the car?

Dee Dee: No. Hunh-uh.
 
De la Rionda: OK. Alright.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2012, 08:07:25 AM »
Dee Dee recounts several details that make it clear TM was in close proximity to Z's car.

What would those be?

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Possible Routes to the "T" Intersection
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2012, 08:31:27 AM »
That was the question on which de la Rionda got frantic to tell Dee Dee it was OK to say 'no.'

Basically, Dee Dee said 'I think so'. And, responding to this particular question, she didn't say a word about Martin losing Zimmerman.

14:31-15:42

You want that, too?   :D


 

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