Author Topic: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?  (Read 83295 times)

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Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #210 on: December 29, 2012, 11:48:07 AM »
So, the Defense shouldn't have any issue explaining that George got out, followed to near the T, got advised not to follow, and it was AFTER that when the dispatcher asked for an address, and of course, at that point there was no address in view (he was behind the houses by the T), and told dispatcher that it's a cut through so he didn't know an address, at which point he decided to go to RVC.

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2:25:20 - Okay, we don't need you to do that.
2:27:75 - Okay.
.........
3:18:39 - [crosstalk: unintelligible] Okay, what-what address are you parked in front of?
3:21:60 – [mild tap] Um, I don't know. It's a cut-through so I don't know the address.

It seems that even on the NEN call he is lying because he knows damn well that the houses in front of his car have addresses.  So why does he go to RVC to get the address where his car is parked on TTL?  That is just nuts.   He could also never have gotten out of the car and told the dispatcher that after the police turn left after the clubhouse, his car would be the only one with lights on.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #211 on: December 29, 2012, 12:06:46 PM »
It seems that even on the NEN call he is lying because he knows damn well that the houses in front of his car have addresses. 

I don't see any reason to assume that would have crossed his mind at the time the dispatcher asked him for an address.  Considering how dark it was, where his truck was facing and what was illuminated, he likely didn't see an address while going in.

He tried and struggled with explaining where he was while he was still in the truck, tried again while he was at the T where he was asked for an address (with none visible),  and there's no reason to conclude that he was lying on the NEN call.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #212 on: December 29, 2012, 01:04:37 PM »
It seems that even on the NEN call he is lying because he knows damn well that the houses in front of his car have addresses.

In the CVSA, he said he didn't see a house number because the truck already parked there blocked his view.

28:40-54, 6:47:17-31
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And I got out of my car to look for a street sign, so that I could at least tell them what street I was on. And, there was no street sign, and I couldn't make out the house in front of me because there was a big pickup truck there.

At first I thought Zimmerman meant that he preferred walking to RVC to walking around the truck. On reflection, there is a more sensible interpretation. He might have meant to say that he didn't realize that those houses faced the street until he saw them in daylight, during the reenactment. He then conjectured that he missed seeing the nearest house number because of the truck.

To be clear, I don't believe Zimmerman was looking for an address at that time, or at any time that night.

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He could also never have gotten out of the car and told the dispatcher that after the police turn left after the clubhouse, his car would be the only one with lights on.

Is that something Zimmerman is supposed to have said when the dispatcher was talking over him? I know he said something after 'They'll see my truck', while the dispatcher was asking for the address. I've never been able to make it out. I think he was giving the make, model, and color, as he mentioned a few times in the SPD interviews.

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #213 on: December 29, 2012, 01:17:04 PM »
It seems that even on the NEN call he is lying because he knows damn well that the houses in front of his car have addresses.  So why does he go to RVC to get the address where his car is parked on TTL?  That is just nuts.   He could also never have gotten out of the car and told the dispatcher that after the police turn left after the clubhouse, his car would be the only one with lights on.

I think that shows how faulty your assumptions are. It simply isn't credible that Zimmerman was lying when he said he didn't know the address because it was a cut-through. It makes no sense.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #214 on: December 29, 2012, 02:04:13 PM »
The dispatcher didn't ask for the address where his car was parked until over a minute after Zimmerman had exited the car.

Earlier discussion, starting here.

I kicked it off with this:

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After Zimmerman said 'OK', he claims to have gone to Retreat View Circle, in search of an address which Sean had not yet asked for.

Everything Zimmerman claims to have done for the sake of that address, was actually done before the address was asked for.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #215 on: December 29, 2012, 02:11:35 PM »
I think that shows how faulty your assumptions are. It simply isn't credible that Zimmerman was lying when he said he didn't know the address because it was a cut-through. It makes no sense.

I read it differently than you.  He was trying to deceive the operator into thinking there were no addresses near where his car was parked.  As far as the operator knew, Zimmerman had gone back to his truck when he said "Okay" a minute previously.  He didn't want to admit that in his mind he had really said then, "F.Y., I am going to keeping going past the dogwalk and on to RVC to see if I can get a peek at the suspect".  After the call, Zimmerman kept 'looking for an address" as his excuse for getting out of the car even though the request for the address was made a minute after he had decided to get out to follow Martin, as he admitted when he answered "yeah" to the dispatcher's question about that.

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #216 on: December 29, 2012, 02:24:36 PM »
Earlier discussion, starting here.

I kicked it off with this:

Though Zimmerman may not have been asked for an address or directions while he was still in his vehicle, he obviously thought they were important and tries to give them. His very first comment to Sean includes, "Um, the best address I can give you is one-eleven Retreat View Circle." Later, after Sean says, "Yeah, we've got him on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else," Zimmerman replies, "When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you'd – would go past the clubhouse—," as if he'd been asked for directions. I find it very easy to see why Zimmerman would have later thought he'd been asked for an address, even though he hadn't. Obviously, even before he got out of his vehicle, Zimmerman was trying to give the address and directions.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #217 on: December 29, 2012, 02:27:45 PM »
I read it differently than you.  He was trying to deceive the operator into thinking there were no addresses near where his car was parked.

That's a major leap of an assumption with really nothing to support it.

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  As far as the operator knew, Zimmerman had gone back to his truck when he said "Okay" a minute previously.


There's no reason to assume the operator thought that, or that George intended to imply that.

George most likely would have been right about the T intersection when the dispatcher asked the address question, and at that point there was no visible address to give.  Listening to that call, I see nothing to indicate George was doing anything beyond trying to get Police to him as quickly as possible.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #218 on: December 29, 2012, 02:31:08 PM »
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After Zimmerman said 'OK', he claims to have gone to Retreat View Circle, in search of an address which Sean had not yet asked for.

Everything Zimmerman claims to have done for the sake of that address, was actually done before the address was asked for.

I think the most likely scenario is that George paused at the T intersection after saying "Okay", and didn't head to RVC until after the address was asked for.  (And that George's claim to the contrary under interrogation fit into George's pattern of getting events out of order, such as pointing to the backs of the houses in the video walkthrough too soon instead of waiting until they reached the T).

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #219 on: December 29, 2012, 02:34:22 PM »
Is that something Zimmerman is supposed to have said when the dispatcher was talking over him? I know he said something after 'They'll see my truck', while the dispatcher was asking for the address. I've never been able to make it out. I think he was giving the make, model, and color, as he mentioned a few times in the SPD interviews.

I think having the cops look for the car with the lights on was something Zimmerman would have said had he not been distracted by Martin starting to run.
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1:45:65 - When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you'd – would
go past the clubhouse— [he's trying to explain his location on Twin Trees, southeast of the clubhouse,
not at the clubhouse itself].
1:54:26 - Okay, it's on the left-hand side from the clubhouse?
1:57:62 - No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left. Uh, yeah, you go straight
in, don't turn and make a left – [2:06:89] sh*t, he's running. [in real time this is at 7:11:41 PM].
2:08:82 - He's running? Which way is he running? [truck door opens, door open chime/alarm]
2:10:24 - Uh [grunts while exiting truck] down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood [door
closes]

It is absolutely obvious from this that he exits to look for Martin in the cut through, not an address. And by the way, the directions Zimmerman gave are not bad, despite claims made in this forum.  Just look at the NY Times map#5 I mentioned previously.  If the cops followed them, they would have had no trouble finding Zimmerman's car and maybe that is exactly what they did.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:37:21 PM by RickyJim »

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #220 on: December 29, 2012, 02:49:13 PM »
George most likely would have been right about the T intersection when the dispatcher asked the address question, and at that point there was no visible address to give.  Listening to that call, I see nothing to indicate George was doing anything beyond trying to get Police to him as quickly as possible.
I see you are still not attempting an explanation of how going to RVC for an address would help the cops find him as quickly as possible and why he went forwards rather than back to the car after the "Okay".  I would hope O'Mara and West have a more realistic view of their potential problems than you do.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #221 on: December 29, 2012, 02:55:38 PM »
Just look at the NY Times map#5 I mentioned previously. 

I've looked at it. What about it?

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #222 on: December 29, 2012, 02:57:24 PM »
It clearly shows that the cops following what Zimmerman told the dispatcher would find his truck.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #223 on: December 29, 2012, 02:59:05 PM »
  I would hope O'Mara and West have a more realistic view of their potential problems than you do.

Word.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #224 on: December 29, 2012, 03:02:16 PM »
I see you are still not attempting an explanation of how going to RVC for an address would help the cops find him as quickly as possible

That's not what I said.  I was referring to listening to the NEN call and addressing your claim that he was attempting to deceive the operator.  Nothing on that NEN call suggests any reason to support that claim.

The decision to go to RVC wasn't on that call, but it was accompanied with a request to have the police call him...in an attempt to get the police to him as quickly as possible.

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I would hope O'Mara and West have a more realistic view of their potential problems than you do.

You really have no clue of what my view is of their potential problems.  Just because addressing them was not in the scope of my response does not mean I'm unaware of them.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 03:04:02 PM by Kyreth »

 

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