Author Topic: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?  (Read 104037 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #225 on: December 29, 2012, 03:18:59 PM »
It clearly shows that the cops following what Zimmerman told the dispatcher would find his truck.

You're entitled to your opinion. I think it's a toss-up whether a person trying to follow those directions would get there or not. I think it was wise of Sean Noffke to distrust them.

What I was wondering is what is special about the Times map, that I'm supposed to get a different impression than I have gotten from all the other maps I have looked at.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #226 on: December 29, 2012, 03:23:31 PM »
That's not what I said.  I was referring to listening to the NEN call and addressing your claim that he was attempting to deceive the operator.  Nothing on that NEN call suggests any reason to support that claim.

The decision to go to RVC wasn't on that call, but it was accompanied with a request to have the police call him...in an attempt to get the police to him as quickly as possible.

You don't deduce he was lying just from the NEN call.  You do if you include his later statements. He never gave the operator an inkling that he was going to RVC and why.  Now tell me again how getting out of the car and going to RVC would help get the cops to him more quickly than just staying inside?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 03:32:43 PM by RickyJim »

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #227 on: December 29, 2012, 03:31:30 PM »
What I was wondering is what is special about the Times map, that I'm supposed to get a different impression than I have gotten from all the other maps I have looked at.

I haven't seen any others that more clearly explain what was going on to me.  You learn where the 711 store was in relation to the the complex, where Martin probably entered the Retreat, what Zimmerman's route both on car and on foot was, where Brandy's house and the back entrance were, etc..  If you have suggestions for better ones, please post links to them.  Thanks.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #228 on: December 29, 2012, 03:34:07 PM »
You don't deduce he was lying just from the NEN call.  You do if you include his later statements.

I disagree.  There is nothing to support that assumption.

Quote
He never gave the operator an inkling that he was going to RVC and why.

So?  It may not have occurred to him to.  We don't know exactly how long he stood at the T after being advised to not follow, or at what point he decided to head over to RVC.  I believe I know what the Defense is going to argue, about when and why he made the decision, but I'd be just guessing.

 
Quote
Now tell me again how getting out of the car and going to RVC would help get the cops to him more quickly than just staying inside?

Once again, I never claimed going to RVC would help the cops get to him more quickly.  One spot would not have been easier or harder for Police to find than the other after all.

I believe that when asked for an address in a spot George was unable to give one,  George rationalized to himself that he might as well go for a location that was closer to where he thought Trayvon might be.

Requesting the Police contact him upon reaching the area, however, does serve the purpose of getting the Police to him as quickly as possible.  This is just basic common sense.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #229 on: December 29, 2012, 03:49:54 PM »
If you have suggestions for better ones, please post links to them. 

I don't know about better. I use Google Earth and Bing.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #230 on: December 29, 2012, 04:11:26 PM »
Quote
Zimmerman: I got out of my vehicle to look at this house’s address, and see if there was a sign there.
Singleton: OK.
Zimmerman: There wasn’t.
Singleton: OK.
Zimmerman: So I walked through the dog walk to see if there was a sign here
Singleton: OK
Zimmerman: or an address that I could make out easier.

https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=996

Did GZ say this before or after the voice stress analysis? I don't remember. If before, and he was lying, I doubt he would have agreed to the VSA unless he knew he wouldn't be asked about looking for an address.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #231 on: December 29, 2012, 04:11:41 PM »
The directions that he, while still in the truck, gave the dispatcher would have gotten the police to him.   
 

They would not, because the dispatcher didn't pass them on. The call logs and radio traffic are in the discovery. I don't think there is any record of those directions going beyond Noffke.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #232 on: December 29, 2012, 04:20:39 PM »
I don't know about better. I use Google Earth and Bing.

This is apples versus oranges.  For a quick orientation for an amateur like me, the Times article has the best maps.  There are no scales there so for more more detailed questions I am happy that a Google/Bing Maps mavin is here to help out.  8)

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #233 on: December 29, 2012, 04:38:04 PM »
Quote
Zimmerman: I got out of my vehicle to look at this house’s address, and see if there was a sign there.
Singleton: OK.
Zimmerman: There wasn’t.
Singleton: OK.
Zimmerman: So I walked through the dog walk to see if there was a sign here
Singleton: OK
Zimmerman: or an address that I could make out easier.

Did GZ say this before or after the voice stress analysis?

Before.

The quote is from the second part of the Singleton interview on 2/26. The CVSA was the next day.

Singleton interviewed Zimmerman alone on 2/26, while Serino was at the scene. The second part of that interview was when Zimmerman drew on a map.

The written statement was done at some time on 2/26. I think it must have been after the first part of the Singleton interview, because Singleton Mirandized Zimmerman at the beginning of the interview. I don't know if the written statement was done before or after the second part of the interview, but comparing the statements I would guess before.

After midnight Serino interviewed Zimmerman briefly. They hit the high points of his story, and discussed the reenactment.

The reenactment was done on the afternoon of 2/27, and the CVSA later that evening.

The last interview was 2/29, in three parts. Serino and Singleton double-teamed Zimmerman, and in the third part confronted him with recordings of his police call and W-11's 911 call.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #234 on: December 29, 2012, 04:47:30 PM »
https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=996

Did GZ say this before or after the voice stress analysis? I don't remember. If before, and he was lying, I doubt he would have agreed to the VSA unless he knew he wouldn't be asked about looking for an address.
The VSA was a day later and he wasn't asked about looking for an address.  I don't find his agreement to take it a convincing argument he actually looked for one when he got out of the vehicle.  The business about looking for one at the dog walk was certainly a lie.  Zimmerman walked his own dog there and knew it only had the back of houses. 

Offline Kyreth

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #235 on: December 29, 2012, 04:56:30 PM »
The business about looking for one at the dog walk was certainly a lie.

There really is no reason to claim such, much less as a "certainty".  Especially in light of the video walkthrough the following day where George demonstrated his problems with getting ahead of him self where he had to go back and correct himself.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #236 on: December 29, 2012, 05:04:22 PM »
For a quick orientation for an amateur like me, the Times article has the best maps. 

Yes, I guess they are about as good as any I've seen in the media. They get the location of the body right, which was a big problem in the early days.

If you haven't downloaded Google Earth, I recommend it. You can search for a specific address, chain stores, businesses or other such things of a particular kind. There's a ruler for estimating distances, and street view photos. All those are very handy.

It's not hard to learn to use. The ruler is on the Tools menu. For Search, click Sidebar on the View menu.

For street views, mouse over the icon outlines in the upper right. One of them will become a little orange man. Click and hold, and blue lines appear on the streets. Drag the figure to one of the lines to get a street view. When you've got it, you can use the icons to rotate the camera view.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #237 on: December 29, 2012, 05:12:31 PM »
Did GZ say this before or after the voice stress analysis? I don't remember. If before, and he was lying, I doubt he would have agreed to the VSA unless he knew he wouldn't be asked about looking for an address.

I think Zimmerman was confident that he could pass any 'lie detector', for reasons I don't think I can discuss with crossing the 'character' line.

I wonder if any of Zimmerman's classes included familiarization with anti-deception technologies.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #238 on: December 29, 2012, 05:14:18 PM »
When I asked this question earlier today, nobody answered so I will try again: What would be the consequences to the defense case if Zimmerman admitted that his story of getting out of the car and going to RVC to get an address for the dispatcher was a lie invented to overcome his feeling of guilt over not taking the dispatcher's implied advice that he get back to the car?

Offline Kyreth

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #239 on: December 29, 2012, 05:28:49 PM »
When I asked this question earlier today, nobody answered so I will try again: What would be the consequences to the defense case if Zimmerman admitted that his story of getting out of the car and going to RVC to get an address for the dispatcher was a lie invented to overcome his feeling of guilt over not taking the dispatcher's implied advice that he get back to the car?

I don't know if anyone would be able to make a guess at how much that would hurt.

And it's such an extremely unlikely scenario that I don't think guessing would serve any purpose.  The Defense has no reason to make such a claim.

 

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