Author Topic: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?  (Read 59737 times)

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Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #675 on: March 12, 2013, 02:03:43 PM »
Prosecution: Charts of Zimmerman statements about various things at different times with claims that the variations, exaggerations and implausibilities prove his guilt.  DeeDee will be gone before trial.

If that's all the prosecution offers, then under Florida's laws it shouldn't even go to the jury. That doesn't come close to meeting the state's burden of proof.

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #676 on: March 12, 2013, 02:15:13 PM »
So, if the prosecution plays a statement GZ made during a police interview and leaves out all the context surrounding that statement, its admissible and the defense cannot introduce all of the contextual statements explaining the statement introduced by the prosecution, they would have to put GZ on the stand to explain it?

No. In fact I was getting ready to add a comment about that. There's a rule called the "doctrine of completeness":

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90.108(1): When a writing or recorded statement or part thereof is introduced by a party, an adverse party may require him or her at that time to introduce any other part or any other writing or recorded statement that in fairness ought to be considered contemporaneously.

It isn't clear by the language how much is included in "any other part or any other writing or recorded statement that in fairness ought to be considered contemporaneously," and it is somewhat within the judge's discretion. I've read quite a few cases trying to figure out how much must be admitted -- whether just the surrounding section or the entire recording -- and I'm still not certain. However, it does seem like generally the entire thing can be used.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #677 on: March 12, 2013, 02:34:06 PM »
If that's all the prosecution offers, then under Florida's laws it shouldn't even go to the jury. That doesn't come close to meeting the state's burden of proof.
But a case in Florida is allowed to go forward with an Information that doesn't come close to giving probable cause for the charges?

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #678 on: March 12, 2013, 02:42:59 PM »
But a case in Florida is allowed to go forward with an Information that doesn't come close to giving probable cause for the charges?

It's a long way from probable cause to beyond a reasonable doubt. The SCOTUS has said that the Constitutional standard for charging a defendant is very low, provided the accused isn't imprisoned prior to trial. Florida law provides for a adversarial preliminary hearing if a defendant is held without bond.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #679 on: March 12, 2013, 06:51:50 PM »
Comment deleted talking about what O'Mara should have done at the preliminary hearing. There was no preliminary hearing. The rules don't provide for it in these circumstances. See here.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #680 on: March 12, 2013, 07:10:25 PM »
Comment deleted talking about what O'Mara should have done at the preliminary hearing. There was no preliminary hearing. The rules don't provide for it in these circumstances. See here.
Sorry, I had missed that earlier discussion.  The good news is that most places are not like Florida. 

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #681 on: March 12, 2013, 09:07:57 PM »
It could be that GZ was talking about gaining control of TM's hand (presumably right) with his left hand. Keeping it out of his face as TM's other hand reached for the gun (or so he believed).

No, it could not be.

I don't understand why you are muddling the issue with this, after posting the quote yourself.

It was in the last interview, and Serino introduced the term 'wrist control', implying that it was law enforcement jargon. He was obviously referring to Zimmerman pinning Martin's wrist with his right arm, as he demonstrated in both the reenactment and the CVSA video.

Zimmerman answered without using the term 'wrist control'. There is no question of what Zimmerman was talking about when using the term, at least in the SPD interviews, because he never did.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #682 on: March 12, 2013, 09:50:12 PM »
No, it could not be.

I don't understand why you are muddling the issue with this, after posting the quote yourself.

It was in the last interview, and Serino introduced the term 'wrist control', implying that it was law enforcement jargon. He was obviously referring to Zimmerman pinning Martin's wrist with his right arm, as he demonstrated in both the reenactment and the CVSA video.

Zimmerman answered without using the term 'wrist control'. There is no question of what Zimmerman was talking about when using the term, at least in the SPD interviews, because he never did.

GZ demonstrated he was controlling one of TM's hands with his left, preventing him from hitting his face/smothering him, and also demonstrated he was controlling TM's other hand by clasping it between his side and right upper arm.  I orignally thought GZ, when responding to Serino's 'wrist control" statements, was talking about clasping TM's hand between his upper right arm and side. I'm not so sure now. Why do you believe GZ was talking about the hand TM was using to reach for his gun (in his belief) when Serino was talking about wrist control during their interview? Look back at my earlier comments.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #683 on: March 12, 2013, 10:59:31 PM »
GZ demonstrated he was controlling one of TM's hands with his left, preventing him from hitting his face/smothering him

CVSA video

41:32-46, 7:00:09-23
Quote
Erwin: OK. That's when your jacket came up, and he saw that, your gun, right?

Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

Erwin: Your gun on your left side, right side?

Zimmerman: My right side.

Erwin: OK. So your gun's on your right side. Your, where were your hands then?

Zimmerman: Trying to keep his hands, away.


42:17-38, 7:00:54-7:01:15
Quote
Erwin: OK, your hands are up here defending yourself. His hand's going down.

Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

Erwin: Were both your hands on the weapon?

Zimmerman: No, sir.

Erwin: OK. Where was his hands, when you went to retrieve the weapon?

Zimmerman: One hand was going towards the gun. He took it off my mouth.

Erwin: Right.

Zimmerman: And I was trying to get his hand, he was suffocating me, so I was trying to get his hands off of my face.

Longer excerpt.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #684 on: March 13, 2013, 04:03:30 AM »
The screams are barely audible.

I disagree.

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We don't know how many and how long the smothering incidents were. Could have been only one or two.

There is nothing in Zimmerman's statements to suggest more than one.


 

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #685 on: March 13, 2013, 05:04:11 AM »
Keep in mind, that when suddenly losing the ability to inhale, the brain can go into panic thus making even a split second seem like a very long time, and can leave an impression far more significant than the moment you actually couldn't breath.

Zimmerman didn't estimate how long the suffocation lasted.

2/29-3, 27:23-35
Quote
Serino: How long did he suffocate you for? Approximately?

Zimmerman: Felt like -

Serino: It seemed like forever, I'm sure.

Zimmerman: Felt like hours, but I don't -

Serino: Don't recall? OK.

Audio

 

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