Author Topic: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?  (Read 67343 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2012, 04:15:13 PM »

EDIT: Is this the same cousin that said he met Dee Dee at the funeral? Ronquavis Fulton?

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/02/trayvons-cousin-its-him-screaming?clusterId=367#videoplayer

I don't think so. If Stephen/Boobie is also Ronquavis, he sure has a lot of names.

From the interview:

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Nancy: Do you know this girl he was talking to on the phone that evening?

Ronquavis: No, but I met her at the funeral.

Nancy: You did?

Ronquavis: Yes.

Nancy: Did you have any opportunity to talk to her?

Ronquavis: No, not personally. Just like a, just a meet, just a formal meeting.

To me, 'this girl he was talking to on the phone that evening' doesn't sound much like a formal introduction. If there was just a formal meeting and no conversation, how did Ronquavis know he met the girl in question?

I'm getting tired of 'journalists' who don't know how to ask a follow-up question.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #76 on: December 18, 2012, 04:30:21 PM »
Who beside Serino and Irwin?

Sorry, that's Investigator William Erwin, who administered the CVSA, and recently emerged as a corroborating witness for Serino's claim that Tracy denied the screaming voice was Trayvon's.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #77 on: December 18, 2012, 05:23:53 PM »
during an interview Jahvaris says he wasn't sure it was TM screaming. He's recorded on video saying it.

Video

He seemed to be hinting he might firm up his opinion after listening to the recording again.

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #78 on: December 18, 2012, 06:48:55 PM »
We've been over this. The authorities have the phone.

I doubt the greeting is stored on the phone. If it were, and someone called you when your phone was turned off, they wouldn't get your voice-mail greeting. But one of the main reasons for  having voice-mail is to let people leave messages when your phone is turned off.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 06:53:28 PM by MJW »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #79 on: December 18, 2012, 06:58:46 PM »
I doubt the greeting is stored on the phone.

That makes sense.

Can the account holder erase it without access to the phone?

Offline FromBelow

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #80 on: December 18, 2012, 07:18:34 PM »
That makes sense.

Can the account holder erase it without access to the phone?

Didn't the police call 911 from the phone to get the number of the phone? And then someone called the phone back? I could be misremembering, but if not when did this happen and wouldn't the person calling back hear the message or lack of one?

EDIT: Apparently it happened on 3/2/2012. Be interesting to see what the person that called the phone heard. They wouldn't be able to answer w/o the pin, so it would have had to go to voice mail. Although I suppose  they could have hung up after it rang and before it went to voice mail. Still, it would be interesting to find out.

http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2166.msg103684.html#msg103684
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 07:24:03 PM by FromBelow »

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2012, 07:19:55 PM »
Can the account holder erase it without access to the phone?

That's a good question. Perhaps someone with a T-Mobile account can provide some information. My guess is that the account owner could, but might have to jump through some hoops. Assuming the account owner, Tracy, didn't know the voice-mail password, I think he could change the password, then call the original phone from a different phone, and when he got the greeting, hit "*" which would interrupt the greeting. He'd then be in the voice-mail menu, and after entertaining the new password, could change the greeting.

This is based on my own (limited) experience and on a website that says:

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How do I access my T-mobile voicemail?
Frequently Asked Questions
Press 1 or *123 send from your wireless phone. If prompted for a password the first time you access your new VoiceMail account, enter the last four digits of your mobile number. Follow the voice prompts. From a landline phone, dial your phone number. Press * to interrupt the greeting. Follow the voice prompts.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 07:26:49 PM by MJW »

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2012, 07:25:13 PM »
Didn't the police call 911 from the phone to get the number of the phone? And then someone called the phone back? I could be misremembering, but if not when did this happen and wouldn't the person calling back hear the message or lack of one?

They probably answered the phone, so it didn't go to voice mail. In fact, I'm pretty sure they answered it, because voice-mail usually doesn't show up on the phone bill unless it's retrieved. Whether or not they also called without answering to hear the voice-mail greeting hasn't been revealed to the public.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #83 on: December 18, 2012, 07:30:03 PM »
They probably answered the phone, so it didn't go to voice mail. In fact, I'm pretty sure they answered it, because voice-mail usually doesn't show up on the phone bill unless it's retrieved. Whether or not they also called without answering to hear the voice-mail greeting hasn't been revealed to the public.

I think you missed my edit. How do you answer a phone when you don't have the pin to unlock it? I wasn't thinking about retrieving the voice mail. I was thinking about the person that called hearing the voice mail message. i.e. did one exist on 3/2/2012 and later got deleted.

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #84 on: December 18, 2012, 07:30:30 PM »
They wouldn't be able to answer w/o the pin, so it would have had to go to voice mail. Although I suppose  they could have hung up after it rang and before it went to voice mail. Still, it would be interesting to find out.

When the phone calls 911, it goes into a special emergency mode that allows return calls from the police to be answered.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #85 on: December 18, 2012, 07:31:43 PM »
When the phone calls 911, it goes into a special emergency mode that allows return calls from the police to be answered.

That would explain it. Thanx.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #86 on: December 18, 2012, 09:31:26 PM »
IANAL, but I thought I recalled reading early on that if GZ testifies at the immunity hearing what he says can be brought up at trial only if he also testifies at trial.

I don't know why that would be. The Dennis hearing itself is at the instigation of the defendant. He doesn't have to have one, much less testify at it, so there is no Fifth Amendment issue.

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I do not know the pertinent statute

I think that would be Fla. Stat. § 90.803, paragraph 22, FORMER TESTIMONY as hearsay exception.

Exceptions under 90.803 apply even if the declarant is available. I think that means the defense can take advantage of it too. It looks like the immunity hearing testimony of any witness can be introduced at trial by either party.

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2012, 10:22:48 PM »
I don't know why that would be. The Dennis hearing itself is at the instigation of the defendant. He doesn't have to have one, much less testify at it, so there is no Fifth Amendment issue.

I think that would be Fla. Stat. § 90.803, paragraph 22, FORMER TESTIMONY as hearsay exception.

Exceptions under 90.803 apply even if the declarant is available. I think that means the defense can take advantage of it too. It looks like the immunity hearing testimony of any witness can be introduced at trial by either party.

I think they may have in mind Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.132(c)(1):
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No testimony by the defendant shall be admissible to prove the guilt of the defendant at any other judicial proceeding, but may be admitted in an action for perjury based on the defendant’s statements made at the pretrial detention hearing or for impeachment.

That rule applies to a pretrial detention hearing. As far as I know, it doesn't also apply the a Dennis hearing, but I don't believe the Dennis hearing rules are specifically laid out anywhere, so I'm not certain.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #88 on: December 18, 2012, 10:38:40 PM »
I don't believe the Dennis hearing rules are specifically laid out anywhere, so I'm not certain.

My understanding is that a Dennis hearing is a type of evidentiary hearing. The rules are the same as for any other evidentiary hearing, except where there is case law applying specifically to Dennis hearings.

(My spellchecker doesn't believe in 'evidentiary' or 'declarant'. I wonder if I can give it a law dictionary for Christmas?)

Offline MJW

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Re: How Would the Prosecution Present Their Case?
« Reply #89 on: December 18, 2012, 11:13:29 PM »
My understanding is that a Dennis hearing is a type of evidentiary hearing. The rules are the same as for any other evidentiary hearing, except where there is case law applying specifically to Dennis hearings.

(My spellchecker doesn't believe in 'evidentiary' or 'declarant'. I wonder if I can give it a law dictionary for Christmas?)

I agree it's a type of evidentiary hearing, but I'm not sure that completely answers the question of what rules apply. In a case I've mentioned before, McDaniel v. State, the 2nd DCA held that hearsay evidence that didn't meet the statutory exceptions wasn't admissible at Dennis hearings, even though it is admissible at suppression hearings, which are also a type of evidentiary hearing. That said, I have no reason the think the rule I mentioned above applies to immunity hearings

In the Firefox spellchecker, it's easy to add words to the dictionary. Just right click and choose "Add to Dictionary." If you're using something else, I'm afraid you're on your own.

 

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