Author Topic: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery  (Read 6500 times)

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Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2013, 11:24:40 AM »
For some reason my browser hasn't been able to access s3.documentcloud.org for the last few days.

I thought that was a link to the 184 page pdf, which is also on s3.documentcloud.org. I didn't realize it was something new.

That's a very bad article.

There is nothing on that site I agree with but it had the link.   I was in a minor debate concerning the charging statute.  782.11 v 782.07

I had never seen anything with the 782.11 on it and it wasn't a part of Doc Dump1.  It certainly wasn't the Capias that was filed.

Howie's point was that if the 782.11 was used, then LE would be admitting that TM was committing the act of assault when he was shot.
either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed

Who knows.  I just thought it was interesting.  Much is made of the fact that they thought that the charge should be Murder 2 early on yet there was references in it to the 776.032 that MOM is pursuing.

Sorry the post was so convoluted.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2013, 08:03:24 PM »
Sorry the post was so convoluted.

Oh, no. The misunderstanding was all my fault.

The link didn't work for me, and it resembled the link to the 184 page pdf. That link also hasn't been working for me lately, but fortunately there are alternate versions of the document on the web.

I just didn't realize you had linked to a document I couldn't read.

Quote
There is nothing on that site I agree with but it had the link.

I understand that. I'm just saying, for the benefit of anyone reading, that IMO that article is full of misinformation. The prosecutor who is cited as the source of the legal BS, has a video interview with Al Sharpton on the same page. He is a passionate opponent of SYG laws.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2013, 08:23:51 PM »
Oh, no. The misunderstanding was all my fault.

The link didn't work for me, and it resembled the link to the 184 page pdf. That link also hasn't been working for me lately, but fortunately there are alternate versions of the document on the web.

I just didn't realize you had linked to a document I couldn't read.

I understand that. I'm just saying, for the benefit of anyone reading, that IMO that article is full of misinformation. The prosecutor who is cited as the source of the legal BS, has a video interview with Al Sharpton on the same page. He is a passionate opponent of SYG laws.


I was going to quote you but I have now decided to make it separate so as not to get your elegantly worded statement a chance to survive The Dreaded DeleteHammerFrmHell!   ;D

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2013, 08:26:50 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D  I will say it in a way that is not so nice as you.  That article is full of CRAP.  I thought since it was an old piece that views may have changed since evidence has been released.  That would be a firm no. 

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2013, 02:16:50 AM »
Howie's point was that if the 782.11 was used, then LE would be admitting that TM was committing the act of assault when he was shot.
either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed

The unlawful act could be the burglary Zimmerman thought Martin was planning.

I wouldn't take anything put on paper on 2/28 as representing a final conclusion. The last interview of Zimmerman was 2/29.

Media accounts often say that the capias request shows that Serino didn't believe Zimmerman's story. I don't think the capias, or any of the drafts of Serino's report, dispute Zimmerman's story on a single point. Serino's argument was that Zimmerman's story, accepted on every point, was grounds for charging homicide.

I don't think Serino ever expected his capias to result in a charge, and in fact it did not. The charge resulted from the governor stepping in and appointing Corey.

I have always thought the purpose of the capias was to pass the buck to Wolfinger. He could take the heat for deciding not to charge, or, more likely, pass the buck on to a grand jury.

Captain O'Connor seems to have admitted as much to the Orlando Sentinel.

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But police did not have enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman, they said at the time and have repeated ever since. Former police Chief Bill Lee Jr. and other senior officers said that would have been a violation of his civil rights, so their solution: dump it on Wolfinger.

For the state attorney to take over the investigation, however, police had to file the right paperwork, Lee wrote in an email to the Orlando Sentinel in July.

That includes a charging recommendation, Lee wrote, and as lead investigator, that task fell to Serino.

He did what he was told, according to O'Connor. Just above Serino's signature, the veteran investigator wrote, "I believe there exists probable cause for issuance of a capias charging George Michael Zimmerman with manslaughter."

O'Connor told the Sentinel in July, "Basically, the implied order was, 'Get it out the door' We wrote up what we had, the context of what we had with the understanding that there was still insufficient evidence for the State Attorney to charge."

In his deposition, Sgt. Santiago said the reaction from Jim Carter, one of Wolfinger's prosecutors, was 'you guys f*ed us in the a*' (p. 74).

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2013, 03:32:40 AM »
The unlawful act could be the burglary Zimmerman thought Martin was planning.

I wouldn't take anything put on paper on 2/28 as representing a final conclusion. The last interview of Zimmerman was 2/29.

Media accounts often say that the capias request shows that Serino didn't believe Zimmerman's story. I don't think the capias, or any of the drafts of Serino's report, dispute Zimmerman's story on a single point. Serino's argument was that Zimmerman's story, accepted on every point, was grounds for charging homicide.

I don't think Serino ever expected his capias to result in a charge, and in fact it did not. The charge resulted from the governor stepping in and appointing Corey.

I have always thought the purpose of the capias was to pass the buck to Wolfinger. He could take the heat for deciding not to charge, or, more likely, pass the buck on to a grand jury.

Captain O'Connor seems to have admitted as much to the Orlando Sentinel.

In his deposition, Sgt. Santiago said the reaction from Jim Carter, one of Wolfinger's prosecutors, was 'you guys f*ed us in the a*' (p. 74).

I considered the assault to be the unlawful act. 

Agreed that they passed the buck.

It is wrong that the Carter quote makes me laugh?  I always think next "Well, the least you could have done was buy us dinner."  I should be embarrassed.  But I'm not.  LOL.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2013, 06:45:18 AM »
Serino has a better command of the facts than say, BDLR has shown in court.  Are there any mistakes in his summary of the evidence? 

I've mentioned a few times that in the final draft, there is a statement that Zimmerman observed Martin entering the complex. That's an error, unless Zimmerman said that when he wasn't being recorded.

That's the only error I've noticed in the final draft. I haven't gone over the earlier ones carefully.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2013, 06:50:40 AM »
I forgot to mention the timeline. It was Singleton's work, but Serino incorporated it into his report. Singleton seems to have confused 'time connected' with 'time created' in the event reports. There are other possible discrepancies in her timeline that haven't been explained AFAIK.

Offline unitron

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2013, 08:20:29 AM »
I've mentioned a few times that in the final draft, there is a statement that Zimmerman observed Martin entering the complex. That's an error, unless Zimmerman said that when he wasn't being recorded.

That's the only error I've noticed in the final draft. I haven't gone over the earlier ones carefully.

I suspect that was the result of someone not being nitpicky enough about Zimmerman talking about first seeing Martin where he would have been if he'd just walked in via the gap between houses that was known to be a shortcut and point of entry.

If Martin was there the most likely explanation is that he did indeed just walk through that gap, but that's not the same as having seen him do so, and as far as I know Zimmerman never claimed to have seen it happen, but apparently that's the reasonable under the circumstances assumption that he made, and somebody was sloppy in writing the report of what he said.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: State's 10th Supplemental Discovery
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2013, 10:10:50 AM »
I've mentioned a few times that in the final draft, there is a statement that Zimmerman observed Martin entering the complex.

I suspect that was the result of someone not being nitpicky enough about Zimmerman talking about first seeing Martin where he would have been if he'd just walked in via the gap between houses that was known to be a shortcut and point of entry.

If Martin was there the most likely explanation is that he did indeed just walk through that gap

That's conventional wisdom. I've been skeptical of it for some time.

More on shortcut thread.

 

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