Author Topic: The Button and the Headphones  (Read 26493 times)

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Offline leftwig

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2013, 11:10:21 AM »
I think the report is partially it.  I think the items not being logged as separate items or tested by forensics are the main reasons.  The phone obviously was not connected to the headphones any longer and it was not in TM's pockets or on his person, so it was bagged separately.  I would think the headphones if on the ground around the body would have been bagged separately from items found within TM's pockets. 

Again, I don't think the defense has focused that much on this issue as its not practical for them and not as important as other pieces of evidence.  Even if they could somehow prove that those items were collected from TM's pockets from detectives, the state would just say other police put them there after the fact and there isn't any way the defense wouldn't have anyway to disprove it.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2013, 01:34:14 PM »
I think the report is partially it.  I think the items not being logged as separate items or tested by forensics are the main reasons.  The phone obviously was not connected to the headphones any longer and it was not in TM's pockets or on his person, so it was bagged separately.  I would think the headphones if on the ground around the body would have been bagged separately from items found within TM's pockets. 

Again, I don't think the defense has focused that much on this issue as its not practical for them and not as important as other pieces of evidence.  Even if they could somehow prove that those items were collected from TM's pockets from detectives, the state would just say other police put them there after the fact and there isn't any way the defense wouldn't have anyway to disprove it.

I think those items are very important.  If it is true and can be proven, that the button, earbuds, and WMFJC were in his pocket it would be a clear signal for intent of Martin when he decided to either return or hide in wait around the "T."  Zimmerman walked past the "T" once going towards RVC without incident.  If the keys were the first to go, it would appear that he was on the west side of the "T" when Martin approached him and socked him in the nose.

That is just my opinion.  If I was a juror, it could be something I would value as evidence.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2013, 02:10:01 PM »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2013, 02:42:57 PM »
Isn't "in close proximity" an edit or an add-on?

Probably the other way around. I think the bag would be labeled when the evidence was collected, and by the same person. So Malphurs would have written 'in close proximity', and CST Smith would have omitted it when she logged the evidence.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2013, 02:44:44 PM »
So in a scenario where I said the button was under his shirt, would you believe I meant it was on his pants or underneath the top layer of clothing?

You're making my point. The meaning depends on context.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2013, 02:54:59 PM »
Even if they could somehow prove that those items were collected from TM's pockets from detectives, the state would just say other police put them there

On their conduct to date, I don't think the prosecutors will be going after the SPD the way Johnnie Cochran went after the LAPD.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2013, 03:05:20 PM »
I didn't say the bleeding out was external. 

You said Ayala saw it.

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Wasn't it Ayala that requested the plastic bag to stop the sucking chest wound?

Raimondo (16/184, 12/284).


Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2013, 03:38:37 PM »
What is the actual evidence of the button/headphones "in the pocket(s)" anyway? Is it just the entry

The entry, and no known forensic testing. I don't recall any other arguments being presented on this point.

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Who entered that information into the report?

Presumably CST Smith, since the items have a DMS tag number.

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CST Smith collected the stuff

ME Investigator Tara Malphurs collected the items on Martin's person (35/284).

I have speculated that Smith may have been busy elsewhere, likely collecting the evidence on the ground, and didn't see where Malphurs collected each item from.

Offline MJW

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2013, 03:47:59 PM »
The entry, and no known forensic testing. I don't recall any other arguments being presented on this point.

And the fact it seems completely contrary to logic and good evidence collection to remove the pin at the scene and place it in a bag with sundry other objects. A pin that was supposedly at most inches from the gunshot hole. Wouldn't the pin have cast a "shadow" on the hoodie gunshot residue pattern?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2013, 03:48:36 PM »
If it is true and can be proven, that the button, earbuds, and WMFJC

What's WMFJC?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2013, 04:03:14 PM »
And the fact it seems completely contrary to logic and good evidence collection to remove the pin at the scene and place it in a bag with sundry other objects.

Your opinion, not a 'fact'. And you may be right. I have no opinion either way.
 
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Wouldn't the pin have cast a "shadow" on the hoodie gunshot residue pattern?

I don't see gunshot residue.




Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2013, 04:29:40 PM »
I made a blog about this issue which I think, hope ;), covers just about everything.

http://diwataman.wordpress.com/my-posts-parent-page/george-zimmerman-case/george-zimmerman-case-evidence/the-button-the-headphones/

Thanks for doing this.

The summary of Malphurs's SAO interview mentions the Skittles and the beverage can. She said she collected the candy, didn't remember seeing the can.

We've talked about how odd those memos are in the choice of what to memorialize. This has to be one of the strangest. It seems to reflect the Crump/Julison narrative, rather than any interest in probative evidence.

I hadn't noticed that CST Smith's name is on the bag. Malphurs probably bagged the items and handed Smith the bag without labeling it. Doesn't seem like good practice to me.

Even if W-13's photo was of better quality, the body was still face down when it was taken.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2013, 05:32:19 PM »
What's WMFJC?
The Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail.  Too long to type.  Borrowed the acronym from John Galt.  :)

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #73 on: May 24, 2013, 05:38:27 PM »
The Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail. 

Thanks.

I don't think there is any dispute that the beverage can was in Martin's pocket.

Offline unitron

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Re: The Button and the Headphones
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2013, 06:17:01 PM »
Thanks.

I don't think there is any dispute that the beverage can was in Martin's pocket.

But there's a lot of "how and when did it get separated from the 7-Eleven bag" yet to be answered.

 

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