Author Topic: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos  (Read 29016 times)

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Offline DebFrmHell

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Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« on: January 29, 2013, 09:29:04 AM »
I am trying to do a copy paste from the Dee Dee (W8) thread so if I screw it up...there is always the edit tool.  LOL.

(Title of thread edited by TalkLeft at request of Deb .)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 01:51:02 PM by TalkLeft »

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 09:31:53 AM »

Quote
Diwata, do you have a time stamp video for the clubhouse videos?  The East Pool cam is the one I am interested in.  I am interested in the rain patterns.  TIA

From Diwata Man:
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Well, sort of. It's kind of a long story, sorry.

It's been quite a long time since I looked at the actual timestamped video. The reason why is because the only way to view the actual timestamp is through the download from the State website;

https://sao4th.egnyte.com/

I have forgotten how now but from there you have to correctly download the file(s) to view the clubhouse tapes with the timestamp on it. You have to use the proprietary CCTV software they provide called NetVu ObserVer.

I no longer have access to that website but I have the software downloaded but something must have happened since, maybe because I moved files around or something, because I can't find the proper videos to load into it. You can't load the the avi files, rather the other video files that are of the correct format for the software.

The only other options are to look online for a copy someone may have uploaded or perhaps download the avi version which I uploaded here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb74bZhXDkI

and add a time stamp to it. I can do that part but it will take me some time to get to it.

From what I recall and what I have noted is the video timestamp begins at 6:30pm and ends at 7:15pm. Applying the eighteen minute discrepancy, the true time of the timestamp then would be 6:48pm to 7:33pm.

The clubhouse video records continuously unlike the 711 or bank videos which are motion activated. The frame rate from what I recall and have noted of the clubhouse video is one shot every 1.5 seconds.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 09:34:47 AM »
From DFH:
Quote
Are you sure that there is really an 18 min discrepancy?  I have been watching the video and off and on you can see cars driving down TTL.  Since officers were starting to arrive at The Retreat after 7:17 you would think that some of those patrol cars would end up on TTL also instead of all of them turning onto RVC.  But maybe not.  I just don't see anything in the was of flashing emergency lights.

From Diwata Man:
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Page 87 of the 284pdf
"the video recording system was 18 minutes slow at the time of the shooting incident"

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 09:36:34 AM »

Quote from: DiwataMan on January 27, 2013, 11:52:48 AM

@0:39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFOrPYD0Q0

Too bad they couldn't just pan to the right a bit ay? We might have seen George's truck.



Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 09:37:56 AM »
From Diwata Man:
Quote
That would take me a while to explain but I'm glad we looked back at that video because I believe we can actually see George's truck. So I made this video real quick. Of course I can't say it is because the quality is so bad but I think it's likely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hzd3cquaZs

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 09:40:09 AM »
From NoMatter:
Quote
Quote from: DiwataMan on January 26, 2013, 09:15:42 PM

It's somewhat difficult to ascertain but from the bank video marked "S Delivery Dr." it is clearly obvious that by 6:34 the ground is saturated and it is raining lightly.



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I think that's "5 Delivery Dr."

How can you tell that rain is falling? Those videos are too grainy for me to read a license plate. I'm skeptical of anyone claiming to discern raindrops.

The Delivery Dr. camera makes an abrupt jump, from dry pavement at 1:14:23 to wet at 6:34:59.

Just before 5:00 there is a vehicle at the ATM, operating windshield wipers on an intermittent setting.

At 5:40 there is a vehicle at the ATM with inactive windshield wipers.

At 6:36 Mark Osterman or his look-alike is at the ATM, with windshield wipers going steadily.

I've assumed that Delivery Dr. could have been wet from the earlier rain, making 6:36 the first time we can be sure of rain after 5 PM.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 09:41:11 AM »
From Diwata Man:
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You have to put the video in an editor so you can scroll back and forth through it to get a better idea of what's going on. Below is an example I quickly put together for you. You can see the puddle form and dissipate a bit in the bank and clubhouse video. You can see drops hitting the puddles. And you can see rain passing by the lens more clearly in the clubhouse video. If we ever get more video perhaps we can be more certain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ErdtQD6bFI

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 09:43:47 AM »
From Diwata Man:
Quote
Here's one I have that's been sped up 4x.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcUO0t0TZfE

RE: East Pool Video

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 09:46:40 AM »
Quote
from: DebFrmHell on Today at 12:05:17 AM

That is so much better!!!!  Thank you a thousand times over.  I am all kinds of fascinated by the things you can do.  For a conservative, you are the tops!  8-)  You, Obi-Wan and Chip.

Okay.  You can see cars going south on TTL.  There are a couple of them around the 7:07 mark.  As they go around the last bend near W11/20's TH you can see them pass if you are looking at the street lamp. (middle light)  There is a definite void as they pass behind it.

At 7:11:29 a vehicle goes down TTL but you don't see him pass behind the street lamp.  Could that be Zimmerman?

Seriously.  This needs it's own thread.  Perhaps in the evidence thread?



From Diwata Man:
YW. I would think it would need it's own thread considering it's not DeeDee rather CCTV evidence we are talking about. This particular clubhouse shot, among all the other videos of the clubhouse, has always been a topic of discussion around the nets. But let me say this while we are here.

nomatter_nevermind recently posted a link to a long 45 minute video in where they discuss this and other clubhouse video.
http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2161.msg105716.html#msg105716

In the video they believe that is George's truck. I once believed it to be as well for just the reason you mention "At 7:11:29 a vehicle goes down TTL but you don't see him pass behind the street lamp"

They also mention other video where one can see a vehicle pass the front of the clubhouse and it does look like a truck and the timing is very close.

The biggest problem in all of this will always be that we can't say definitively that is George's truck, the quality of the video is just too bad. Also I think it may be possible for a vehicle to pass the front of the clubhouse and even park without being seen on the camera. I also think it may be possible for a car to travel South then East down Twin Trees and not be seen if it stays on the North side of the street because of the blown out area. Of course I can't say with certainty without actually going there and conducting some tests.

In the end I think that no matter what one side or the other brings up regarding the video the other side can say the same to the other. The quality is just to bad to discern much of anything. Also, just how accurate was the time accounted for? Did the investigator merely look at his watch? Was it checked against NIST? If that's what they used? You get the idea. ;)

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 09:55:57 AM »
From NoMatter's Link:
HUGE Credit Whonoze @BBCList since I believe that he is the person that compiled this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pw4utMiNido

I do think this is interesting though I have only gone thru a third of it.  It gives a very good representation of what the cameras are seeing.  I like that it has all four cameras and is set to time.  I plan to finish it up today.

This is what NoMatter has to say about the video...

Quote

I think there is a good mix of factual presentation and commentary. Much of the factual material will be familiar. I learned a lot about the clubhouse videos, which is an area I've neglected.

There is some music, but I didn't pay much attention to it.

The level of factual accuracy is pretty high, especially in comparison to most of what has been said and written about the case.

I think they have Zimmerman's residence in the wrong building, but I could be the one mistaken. I'm just relying on Google Earth. Only off by one, so an inconsequential error if it is one.

They attribute to Zimmerman the claim that Martin entered by 1460/1510, which is one of my pet peeves.

In a segment labeled speculative, the video has the confrontation begin where the body was found. All the evidence that it happened near the T is ignored, not addressed.

I'm sure there are other errors, but those are the ones I noticed and recall. There's also a fair amount of opinions stated as facts. Probably the worst fault of the video is treating Dee Dee's assertions as if they were uncontested facts.

I don't know what to make of the conclusions drawn from the clubhouse videos. I'm very interested in hearing from people who are knowledgeable about video.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 10:03:01 AM by DebFrmHell »

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 09:56:39 AM »
Ah, very good. I think perhaps the title of the thread should indicate that it's the Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse video and possibly an indication of which camera.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 10:01:30 AM »
Ah, very good. I think perhaps the title of the thread should indicate that it's the Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse video and possibly an indication of which camera.

I will send a PM to Jeralyn and see if she can edit it.  Got a good suggestion for a title so I don't come off as a dope?   :D

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: CCTV
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 10:38:13 AM »
I will send a PM to Jeralyn and see if she can edit it.  Got a good suggestion for a title so I don't come off as a dope?   :D

I would think The Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse videos would be good enough or some variation thereof to help differentiate it from the other videos, i.e. Bank Videos, Lake's Edge Apartment videos, etc.

edit: unless you want the thread to be about all the videos regarding the case, though I think that might get cluttered.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 10:39:59 AM by DiwataMan »

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2013, 06:31:49 AM »
The vehicle that I see on the East Pool cam at 7:11:29 is showing at 7:09:40.

From Lee M's transcript:
http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/alternatetranscript.pdf
Quote
1:34:25- Okay [turns in seat]. These assholes, they always get away. Yep [power window switch or gear
shift and four footsteps/fade].
1:45:65 - When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you'd – would
go past the clubhouse— [he's trying to explain his location on Twin Trees, southeast of the clubhouse,
not at the clubhouse itself].
1:54:26 - Okay, it's on the left-hand side from the clubhouse?
1:57:62 - No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left. Uh, yeah, you go straight
in, don't turn and make a left – [2:06:89] sh*t, he's running. [in real time this is at 7:11:41 PM].
2:08:82 - He's running? Which way is he running? [truck door opens, door open chime/alarm]
2:10:24 - Uh [grunts while exiting truck] down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood [door
closes].

In the NEN, Zimmerman is sounding preoccupied and I believe that is because he is driving at the time.  I also believe that is the Ridgeline going around that corner going east but doesn't appear to make the bend to turn south on TTL. 

This is why I think the time that DiwataMan's time is correct.

I do like that video because of the split screens but I had to mute it.  I thought it was kind of silly that they have him making two 3-point turns.

((I apparently need to go to school to translate a minute.  If it isn't happening at the :50 mark where I know they are talking about 30 seconds, it just isn't' happening for me.  I am a dolt.))

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2013, 10:08:46 AM »
I am posting this dialogue from youtube here in the hope that DiwataMan will comment on whether Teeslaw's deductions about the movements of Zimmerman's car can be justiied.
Quote

rickyjim2001 1 hour ago

What was the shutter speed of the clubhouse cameras and how were they synched with each other? I am not sure one can base conclusions on where Zimmerman's car was based on 1 frame per second video without knowing the answers to those questions. I also doubt that Zimmerman, from the driver's side of his vehicle traveling east on RVC, would have noticed Martin in the mail kiosk and decided he was worthy of investigation. Zimmerman's story about Taafe's house is more believable than yours. .
·
Teeslaw

Teeslaw 28 minutes ago

The security videos were taken from the discovery files posted by DiwattaMan. They were supposed to be in sync; we checked and determined that they were based on how vehicles move from one camera to another.

FWIW, most of out group agrees that GZ could not have seen TM under the kiosk from RVC. The speculation is that someone had told him a suspicious person was there, and he was looking for them. There is enough light under the awning for GZ to see there from the intersection, on the 2nd pass.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 10:10:36 AM by RickyJim »

 

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