Author Topic: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos  (Read 41298 times)

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Offline whonoze

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #120 on: February 04, 2013, 01:44:26 PM »
One thing we can perhaps agree on: DeeDee and Zimmerman cannot both be telling the truth.*

If Trayvon was under the RATL mail awning at 6:54, then GZ did not see him in Taaffe's yard, and he did not pass GZ near the clubhouse. Conversely, if GZ's version is correct, TM was not under the mail awning at 6:54.

I hope there is GPS data from Trayvon's phone for 2/26. I know nothing about cell phones or GPS. I have read posts that suggest there may not have been any data recorded for that day if the phone died before midnight. Other posts have disagreed on the accuracy of GPS location data - anywhere from 2 meters to 100 meters.

If there is reasonably accurate GPS location data, that will go a long way towards resolving the questions arising here. So I hope there is, and it gets disclosed.

I also hope Judge Nelson orders ABC to release any recordings it has of DeeDee's interview with Attny. Crump, as i am positive Matt Gutman made an intelligible audio recording of it using a professional telephone tap, independent of Crump's little personal voice recorder. I doubt anything on it is earthshaking, and if it has any effect at all it might be an aid to either side (or perhaps both in different ways). I just want to be able to hear it and judge for myself.

* (I do not aver here that either party  is 'lying,' as I take that to mean the deliberate and knowing utterance of falsehoods, and it's possible both DeeDee and GZ may believe their own statements...)

Offline whonoze

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #121 on: February 04, 2013, 01:49:03 PM »
In my opinion the 18 minute adjustment in near exact to the second.

Then how do you account for 'the W3 problem'? (With an 18 minute offset, W3 says "I see a police officer now" before Smith's car could possibly have been in her line of sight.)

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #122 on: February 04, 2013, 02:00:35 PM »
Then how do you account for 'the W3 problem'? (With an 18 minute offset, W3 says "I see a police officer now" before Smith's car could possibly have been in her line of sight.)

Right around that same time W18 says "there's a man coming out, there's people coming out with flashlights" 29:36 - 29:45. I'm guessing W3 took W13 for a police office given he had a flashlight.

Offline MJW

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #123 on: February 04, 2013, 02:25:34 PM »
Right around that same time W18 says "there's a man coming out, there's people coming out with flashlights" 29:36 - 29:45. I'm guessing W3 took W13 for a police office given he had a flashlight.

As much as I hate to take whonoze side on this (sorry about that, whonoze), W3 was concerned that the police officer was behind the houses, yet W13's house is east of the dog walk, so W3 wouldn't see him until he was moving in the right direction toward  the scene of the shooting.

To put it another way, with the relative locations of W3's and W13's houses, I don't think W3 would ever see W13 in a position that she would describe as "behind the houses."
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 02:31:14 PM by MJW »

Offline MJW

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #124 on: February 04, 2013, 02:41:50 PM »
I see DiwataMan has some very informative diagrams of the camera locations on his clubhouse video blog.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #125 on: February 04, 2013, 02:43:00 PM »
As much as I hate to take whonoze side on this (sorry about that, whonoze), W3 was concerned that the police officer was behind the houses, yet W13's house is east of the dog walk, so W3 wouldn't see him until he was moving in the right direction toward  the scene of the shooting.

To put it another way, with the relative locations of W3's and W13's houses, I don't think W3 would ever see W13 in a position that she would describe as "behind the houses."

She's telling the dispatcher where the shooting happened at that point in the call. Have you looked at the blog? I'll make the point even stronger if need be but like I said, what I have ought to be enough. Negating everything else because W3 happened to say "police" would be folly I would think.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #126 on: February 04, 2013, 03:07:00 PM »
Negating everything else because W3 happened to say "police" would be folly I would think.

Always a shame when a beautiful theory is murdered by an ugly little fact.

911 call
Quote
Dispatcher: OK, and, do you, you see the officer?
W-3: Yeah, but, like, he, in, it's behind the houses. It's like five or, it's, it's not the front entrance. It's like, oh my God!
Dispatcher: Near what? Tell me, so I can tell them.
W-3: Like, if you're looking at my house, [redacted], it's behind, it's like, by my, my back porch.

To me it sounds like W-3 was upset because the trouble was behind her house and the officer was in front of it.

FDLE interview, 3/19/12
Quote
Batchelor: After you heard the gunshot, did you look back out the window?
W-3: I stayed in the other rooms until the police were there.

W-3 couldn't see W-13 if she didn't look out her back window.

If W-3 didn't look out her back window until she knew police were there, then the officer she mentioned seeing on the 911 call must have been visible through her front window.

Maybe she mistook someone or something else for a police officer. I don't think it was W-13.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #127 on: February 04, 2013, 03:16:11 PM »
Always a shame when a beautiful theory is murdered by an ugly little fact.

911 call
To me it sounds like W-3 was upset because the trouble was behind her house and the officer was in front of it.

FDLE interview, 3/19/12
W-3 couldn't see W-13 if she didn't look out her back window.

If W-3 didn't look out her back window until she knew police were there, then the officer she mentioned seeing on the 911 call must have been visible through her front window.

Maybe she mistook someone or something else for a police officer. I don't think it was W-13.

Okay so then at 29:36 (7:17:46) when W3 says “I see a police right now” she's talking about something else other than what's behind her house. Which may in fact be police. I don't see how that's a problem for anything else though.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #128 on: February 04, 2013, 03:40:14 PM »
There may be two sources of confusion here. At almost the same time that W13 was being misidentified as a police officer, Ofc. Smith was near the scene and trying to find the exact location via the dispatcher. Since the addresses are redacted from the radio traffic, we don't exactly know where he was located at that point.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #129 on: February 04, 2013, 03:53:32 PM »
There may be two sources of confusion here. At almost the same time that W13 was being misidentified as a police officer, Ofc. Smith was near the scene and trying to find the exact location via the dispatcher. Since the addresses are redacted from the radio traffic, we don't exactly know where he was located at that point.

Who is confused? If W3 is looking out her front window who knows what she's really seeing. Could just be lights coming in the front entrance, a car, who knows, but what I do know is that it doesn't effect the 18 minute thing no matter which way one looks at it.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 03:56:26 PM by DiwataMan »

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #130 on: February 04, 2013, 04:04:18 PM »
Who is confused? If W3 is looking out her front window who knows what she's really seeing. Could just be lights coming in the front entrance, a car, who knows, but what I don know is that it doesn't effect the 18 minute thing no matter which way one looks at it.

I agree. I was addressing the who could see what bit. Some of them misidentified W13 as LEO. Some of them could have seen Ofc. Smith, his car or even his lights. The point is that there was some delay in Smith's arrival and the time in which he made it to the actual scene.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #131 on: February 04, 2013, 04:09:27 PM »
If Officer Smith was in his car on TTL, and got word that there was a disturbance behind the row of buildings, why wouldn't he get out of the car and investigate from the TTL side? Why would he drive around to RVC?

To be clear, I'm not arguing for any conclusion at the moment. I'm just poking at the puzzle pieces. Something doesn't fit.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #132 on: February 04, 2013, 04:10:21 PM »
Some of them misidentified W13 as LEO.

Which ones?

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #133 on: February 04, 2013, 04:13:30 PM »
I agree. I was addressing the who could see what bit. Some of them misidentified W13 as LEO. Some of them could have seen Ofc. Smith, his car or even his lights. The point is that there was some delay in Smith's arrival and the time in which he made it to the actual scene.

I agree there was a delay from when Smith reached the Retreat at Twin Lakes to when he had George at gunpoint. I'm guessing a bit over two minutes.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #134 on: February 04, 2013, 04:19:23 PM »
If Officer Smith was in his car on TTL, and got word that there was a disturbance behind the row of buildings, why wouldn't he get out of the car and investigate from the TTL side? Why would he drive around to RVC?

To be clear, I'm not arguing for any conclusion at the moment. I'm just poking at the puzzle pieces. Something doesn't fit.

I think it's an assumption that W3 sees Smith, the man himself, at 7:17:46. Could it not be police lights she sees reflecting off buildings? Is she upstairs? Can she see Smith's car heading in through the front gate? Can she see it heading East down Retreat View Circle?

 

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