Author Topic: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos  (Read 30596 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline whonoze

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2013, 07:55:25 AM »
NMNM:

I just looked at your pics from RATL on Flickr. The stills saying they match where GZ had Smith park in the 're-enactment' don't. Their position is too far to the East. Look carefully at the re-enactment vid. GZ is right in front of the large window.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2013, 08:03:46 AM »
It's the security camera labeled 'East Pool Hall'.

Thank you.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2013, 10:18:53 AM »
So is there any compelling reason to conclude that one of these guys with a flashlight was Zimmerman with his keychain light?   

I don't know about compelling, but whatever the reason W-6 indicated there were multiple flashlights, I agree with whonoze that it wasn't because Officer Smith was already there.

The first time W-6 said 'flashlights', plural, was 7:18:25.

Digressing for a moment, I'm not assuming these times are accurate to the second. There might be a delay between the connection time and the start of the recording, but I don't think it would be more than a few seconds for a 911 call. I don't think 911 callers get put on hold, absent major disaster.

Digressing within digression, I don't know that it has been established that time on hold creates a gap between Event Report connection time and recording start. That's another speculation. For all I know, connection time and recording start might match to the second, regardless of the type of call.

Returning to the 911 recordings (pop), if there is a gap between connection time and recording start, it might be similar for all the calls, and in any case it's in the same direction. Recording can't start before there is a connection. So I would expect the intervals to be at least a little more accurate than the absolute times.

Back to the timeline (pop).

W-6 said 'I think, there is flashlights' about 7:18:25, and 'There's two guys in the backyard, with flashlights,' about 7:18:41. I omitted the second one before, because I just wanted to mark the first time W-6 indicated multiple flashlights.

About 7:19:23 W-5 (Mary Cutcher) said 'Police are here.' She didn't say how she knew, and in my opinion Cutcher is the least reliable of the witnesses. But this is the first indication of police on the scene.

About 7:19:29, W-18 said  'People are coming, I think, with another gentleman with a flashlight. I don't know if it's a policeman.' Around the time she finished saying that, she heard Zimmerman admit to the shooting, and passed that to the dispatcher about 7:19:36.

W-18 isn't a great witness either, but her real-time account is consistent with Zimmmerman's SPD interviews and Smith's report, and gives us a marker for when Smith contacted Zimmerman and began the process of taking him into custody. And that time is about a minute after the first time W-6 indicated multiple flashlights, and over half a minute after the second time.

The W-6 call ended about 7:19:04, so he would have been off the phone by the time Smith reached Zimmerman.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 10:32:52 AM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2013, 10:44:01 AM »
I just looked at your pics from RATL on Flickr. The stills saying they match where GZ had Smith park in the 're-enactment' don't. Their position is too far to the East. Look carefully at the re-enactment vid. GZ is right in front of the large window.

Thanks for raising the issue. If there is an error, we want to correct it.

I think AghastInFl parked in the right space, just a bit to the left of where Smith parked. Those spaces are roomy.

Did you compare with the part of the reenactment when the camera pans left? That's closer to the angle AIF was shooting, and the big window is also out of frame.

Offline RickyJim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1580
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2013, 11:04:09 AM »
I don't know about compelling, but whatever the reason W-6 indicated there were multiple flashlights, I agree with whonoze that it wasn't because Officer Smith was already there.
Do we really know when the neighbors went outside?  There are both neighbors who are numbered witnesses and those who aren't, like the Asian gentleman.  Zimmerman's keychain flash might make only a tiny bit of light compared to a regular flashlight and not be noticeable from W6's upstairs window. 

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #95 on: February 03, 2013, 11:06:59 AM »
I just looked at your pics from RATL on Flickr. The stills saying they match where GZ had Smith park in the 're-enactment' don't.

The photo descriptions don't actually say 'match'. They say the vehicle parked in the same space.

Sgt. Smith on 2/27 didn't try to exactly match the location that Zimmerman parked on 2/26. That means there is no reason to try to exactly match where Smith parked.

I know I'm being fussy, but I think the point is worth making.

Offline whonoze

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #96 on: February 03, 2013, 11:39:27 AM »
There are both neighbors who are numbered witnesses and those who aren't, like the Asian gentleman.
The Asian gentleman is W13. He's Filipino.

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #97 on: February 03, 2013, 11:47:07 AM »
Quote
I don't recall W13 mentioning that Zimmerman had a flashlight.

He didn't.

No one said he did.

If "No one said he did" means "No witness said Zimmerman had a flashlight." I agree, and that was my point. If Zimmerman had a flashlight, it's a trifle odd that no one who saw Zimmerman just after the shooting mentioned that fact, including W13.

If "No one said he did" means "No person said Zimmerman had a flashlight." Whonoze did.

If, as I think is likely, "No one said he did" means "No one said W13 mentioned Zimmerman had a flashlight." I guess I made my point too indirectly. I was drawing attention to the fact that the person who was with the supposedly flashlight-carrying Zimmerman either didn't notice or didn't thing it was worth mentioning to the police. Neither of which seems likely.

Offline AghastInFL

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2013, 02:06:21 PM »
NMNM:

I just looked at your pics from RATL on Flickr. The stills saying they match where GZ had Smith park in the 're-enactment' don't. Their position is too far to the East. Look carefully at the re-enactment vid. GZ is right in front of the large window.
The spaces are not marked/ striped for parking there are however two signs at the eastern end of the parking area which designate the centerline of at least the first two spaces. I knew this before arrival. I was careful to first park in the second space from the E as GZ stated, I made no effort to hide or alter that view, you see what I saw.

The second photo was taken by moving the vehicle left (east) and splitting the difference between those designated spaces. I did this because it was obvious if I moved farther over I could in fact view the kiosk... that is the second view and it is directly in front of the window.
In the reenactment the officers could not park in the exact spot... I have no map for GZ exact parking orientation on the 26th... but I did what he said ("there next to that green truck"), then I tried to show a what if... what if he parked a little farther over.


Offline TalkLeft

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1125
  • Rate Post +0/-0
    • TalkLeft: The Politics of Crime
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2013, 02:54:10 PM »
w-13 took a photo of the flashlight. He took three photos, one of GZ, one of TM and one of the flashlight. It's in the 6th Supplemental discovery. released August 2012. He also said so in his March interviews.



Offline whonoze

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2013, 02:59:53 PM »
w-13 took a photo of the flashlight.

That's the non-working 'tactical' flashlight, yes?

Offline DiwataMan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Rate Post +0/-0

Offline DebFrmHell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 954
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #102 on: February 04, 2013, 12:56:03 AM »
8)
http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/02/04/clubhouse-video-and-discussion/

I have stared at that for so long that I am seeing hubcaps and people moving around...LOL.  This is like the flashback the government promised me back in 1968.

Can you tell me what I am seeing at 7:08:52?  Is that a vehicle pulling into the clubhouse?  Or pulling past?  I swear I cannot tell.  I am trying to remember the floorplan for the clubhouse.  I saw it in the Taafe walk around the neighborhood that he did with Dave(?)  I thought as they entered the rear of the clubhouse from the pool, there was a seating area to the left and to the right was a game room then the kitchen.

Offline spectator

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #103 on: February 04, 2013, 01:46:10 AM »
I contend we can definitively say that GZ did not park in front of the clubhouse where and when he said he did in the 're-enactment.' 
.

There's quite a few oddities out there that think GZ never parked at the clubhouse, but aside from the obvious, if you look at the 2 windows in the game room vid, you can clearly see them illuminate after he obviously pulls in at about 20:46.

Those 2 windows nearly double in output for about a minute or so, it is very subtle but clear as day when you look for the change(use the slider).

Aside from passing cars, the 2 windows stay consistent for the entire tape, except when GZ pulls in for that brief stay.

If you don't notice it, darken the room your in and click randomly back or forward in time on the slider, you can't miss it.

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Retreat at Twin Lakes Clubhouse Videos
« Reply #104 on: February 04, 2013, 02:13:05 AM »
Is there a map somewhere showing the camera locations and the directions they're pointed? I know what the east pool camera shows, but that's about it.

 

Site Meter
click
tracking