Author Topic: Crump 15 page document:  (Read 9390 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2013, 12:34:24 AM »

At CTH some people were crowing over some statements Crump made in an interview on HLN (8:03). They called them a 'confession' that Crump 'edited' the recording.

I was never quite sure what they meant, but I think it was about this:

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Crump: We keep stopping, trying to hear it. Then we go back, and we try to re-record and stuff.

I think they were interpreting this to mean that Crump rewound a tape and recorded over it.

In the affidavit, Crump indicated that the device he was using has a digital memory, for which there is no such thing as 'recording over'. When the recorder is stopped and started, the new recording is automatically saved as a separate 'message'. The only way to erase information is to delete one or more messages.

In the affidavit Crump stated that neither he nor anyone else deleted any messages, or edited the recording in any way.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 12:56:04 AM »
The "every substansive statement" is what galls me.  Who is he to decide what is substansive or not to the Defense?

He was doing play backs to check the recordings for clarity.  He changed cell phones until he decided on one that he thought had the best audio quality for recording.  IDK if I would consider that editing but there should be a folder(s) that have varying degrees of clarity.  If there isn't, then why not?  If they aren't there, were they deleted?  He says he deleted nothing so it has to still be there, right?

Diwata will have a much more through understanding of this than simple little ole me.  I have to wait for him to make it make sense.

Offline whonoze

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 06:55:57 AM »
The "every substansive statement" is what galls me.  Who is he to decide what is substansive or not to the Defense?

...there should be a folder(s) that have varying degrees of clarity.  If there isn't, then why not?

There are varying degrees of clarity between different segments. As for the "every substantive statement" thing, I think I can explain what is going on. If you listen to the single long file originally released in discovery, it contains a certain amount of Crump talking to other people in the room while DeeDee is not on the phone. Combined with the interview itself, this reveals several things:

1. Crump's relationship to DeeDee is tenuous, and he's afraid he won't get another chance to get her on the record. He's trying really hard to get her statement down in audio form.

2. Alas for him, he is utterly ignorant of audio technology, and royally screws up his recording five ways to Sunday.

3. Crump can't have been that tight with the ABC guys, as surely would have seen that he was going about making the recording all wrong. But he doesn't ask for their help. At one point Matt Gutman tries to make one small suggestion, and Crump it him off due to his worry that he might lose DeeDee altogether in the process.

4. All of the segments but one include DeeDee connecting and disconnecting, and there is logical continuity between them in the subject matter.

5. One segment however, begins with DeeDee already talking in mid-statement. Clearly what happened here is Crump failed to get his recorder back into RECORD mode at the beginning of that segment, somehow noticed the mistake and corrected it. We have no idea how long his recorder was off, or what DeeDee said during that part, except that one of ABC's little sound bites was taken from the part Crump failed to record.

So I interpret a certain amount of the language in the affdavit, including the "every substantive statement" line to Atty. Crump being too proud to admit he utterly botched his big interview from a technical standpoint. Since he did eventually get the recorder turned on in that segment, had DeeDee said anything important up to that point since the last pause, he surely would have asked her to repeat it.

The big issue with the Crump recording is not that part of what DeeDee said is missing. it's that most of what DeeDee said is unintelligible to to the thoroughly inept way it was recorded:

a. DeeDee was on speakerphone creating room reverb on her end.

b. Crump was on speakerphone, creating room reverb on his end that amplified the room reverb from DeeDee's end.

c. Crump's mini-recorder was too far away from the speaker of his phone.

By the end of the session Crump is getting poor but intelligible audio from DeeDee, including the section he played back at his press conference. Changing cell phones may have had a little to do with this, as different phones vary in audio quality, but the big change, I am quite positive, was getting DeeDee off speaker phone on her end, subtracting her room echo from the equation.

Apparently, Crump still doesn't understand the technical issues involved, and that's reflected in his affadavit. All that stuff about "the limitations of the Recorder" really means 'the limitations of Mr. Crump's understanding about how to use the recorder and the phones to record a phone conversation' or 'I know the sound is awful but I did the best I knew how with what I had.' But his know-how was negligible, and he should have observed the maxim "If you don't know, you better ask somebody."

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 08:37:00 AM »
^^So this makes the ABC Motion even more important?  I can't believe that they weren't recording the whole thing.   Thanks for pointing out all of the differences.  I have to admit.  I am a bum.  I am not used to listening to audio/video because old computer had a virus and I couldn't hear.  I forget I can hear now with the new one.  Getting to hear/see streaming anything is a delight! 

I have asked both Seni and Matt G about W8's age on Twitter.
They kind of told me to get a hobby.
 8-) 
I told them they were my hobby.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2013, 08:57:00 AM »
The "every substansive statement" is what galls me.  Who is he to decide what is substansive or not to the Defense?

He was doing play backs to check the recordings for clarity.  He changed cell phones until he decided on one that he thought had the best audio quality for recording.  IDK if I would consider that editing but there should be a folder(s) that have varying degrees of clarity.  If there isn't, then why not?  If they aren't there, were they deleted?  He says he deleted nothing so it has to still be there, right?

Diwata will have a much more through understanding of this than simple little ole me.  I have to wait for him to make it make sense.

Oh no, please don't wait for me, I am constantly getting things wrong  :o

I think about 80% of what I could say regarding Crump wouldn't be allowed here.

I'm shocked the FBI recorded the audio off the recorder by holding it up to a microphone. I knew somebody did because you could hear the recorders beeps but I certainly didn't think the FBI was the one who did it that way. They should have jacked into it and recorded it that way. I'm thinking the state did the same thing with the second release. What madness. So much for the best recording equipment in the whole wide world ay Crump?

Offline whonoze

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2013, 09:11:27 AM »
So this makes the ABC Motion even more important?

Indeedy do.

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I can't believe that they weren't recording the whole thing.

Me neither. Especially since they have that one sound-byte that isn't on Crumps recording (and it's clearly part of this interview, not Gutman's later chats with DeeDee).

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I told them they were my hobby.

That made me smile.  :)

As I said before, I think Nelson ought to order ABC to cough up their recording of the Crump/W8 interview, and ABC ought to comply. However, I don't think she should order them to release the unedited "rushes" of any interviews Gutman did himself, and I don't think ABC would ever (or should) comply if she did.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2013, 10:32:49 AM »
I have asked both Seni and Matt G about W8's age on Twitter.
They kind of told me to get a hobby.
 8-) 
I told them they were my hobby.
I wonder what they would say if you asked them why DeeDee didn't contact anybody to tell her story after Trayvon was killed.  Unprintable?   ;D

Offline MJW

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2013, 11:45:21 AM »
As I said before, I think Nelson ought to order ABC to cough up their recording of the Crump/W8 interview, and ABC ought to comply. However, I don't think she should order them to release the unedited "rushes" of any interviews Gutman did himself, and I don't think ABC would ever (or should) comply if she did.

They'll turn over the recordings if the court orders them to. And if the trial court follows Florida law as laid out by the state supreme court in State v. Davis, 720 So. 2d 220 (Fla. 1998), the court will order them to.

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The fact that the victim allegedly made similar statements to others does not eliminate the need for the defendant to determine what was said to this witness when the testimony is relevant and material to the issues in the case.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2013, 01:00:51 PM »
I hope ABC has to turn over the interviews, but I don't think it is a lock they will be ordered to do so. Nelson could decide they only go to impeachment rather than an issue in the case, or that with respect to the issues in the case, her two statements (to Crump and Bernie) are available  There's a lot of law on this, in Florida and elsewhere. In a 2011 Florida case involving a Miami commissioner, the court refused to order a reporter's tapes saying:

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"At issue in Spence-Jones was whether the state could compel Jawan Strader, a reporter for WFOR-TV in Miami, to testify concerning an interview he had conducted with former City Commissioner Michelle Spence-Jones, who had been charged with bribery and grand theft. The prosecution claimed that unpublished portions of the interview would assist it in proving that Spence-Jones had made false statements to the news media about the missing funds and in impeaching her testimony if she testified at trial. (Spence-Jones was acquitted of the charges on March 16.) In an order entered on March 7, Rodriguez rejected the prosecutionís claims. First, she ruled, the state failed to show that the information was unavailable from other sources, as the state conceded that Spence-Jones had made many public statements about the missing funds. Second, she held, a desire to impeach a witness was not a compelling enough interest to overcome Straderís privilege against testifying. Rodriguez therefore quashed the subpoena and, in doing so, upheld both the letter and the spirit of Floridaís shield law."

I haven't found the court order itself online. Please continue this discussion in a thread on Gutman/ABC rather than the Crump affidavit thread. Thanks.

Offline MJW

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2013, 02:38:47 PM »
The notice of Crump's (cancelled) deposition is now on the court website. Not worth starting a thread over, since it never took place.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2013, 03:47:45 PM »

One segment however, begins with DeeDee already talking in mid-statement. Clearly what happened here is Crump failed to get his recorder back into RECORD mode at the beginning of that segment, somehow noticed the mistake and corrected it. We have no idea how long his recorder was off, or what DeeDee said during that part, except that one of ABC's little sound bites was taken from the part Crump failed to record.

Which sound bite?

Offline vegas

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2013, 07:09:11 PM »
^^So this makes the ABC Motion even more important?  I can't believe that they weren't recording the whole thing.   Thanks for pointing out all of the differences.  I have to admit.  I am a bum.  I am not used to listening to audio/video because old computer had a virus and I couldn't hear.  I forget I can hear now with the new one.  Getting to hear/see streaming anything is a delight! 

I have asked both Seni and Matt G about W8's age on Twitter.
They kind of told me to get a hobby.
 8-) 
I told them they were my hobby.

 ;D ;D ;D Love it!  Any idea of her real age yet???

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2013, 08:08:17 PM »
;D ;D ;D Love it!  Any idea of her real age yet???

Oh, heck no, nothing about her age.   Other than when Seni confirmed that he was there for the Crump/Gutman/W8 interview.  That's it.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2013, 09:29:13 AM »
Sections 20 and 21 of the document explain that the main interview (after the preliminary part) took place in "an enclosed room in a residence in South Florida."  with also present, Trayvon's parents and certain other family members and Gutman and his assistant.  He did not know who was present with Witness #8 at her end.  What information has come to light since this document came out that might cast doubt on the correctness of the above?

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Crump 15 page document:
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2013, 03:03:12 PM »
Ricky, there is none. Gutman says the same thing. He was with Crump and the Martins. He says the Martins were "ashen-faced" during the interview. I realize at other sites they are getting this wrong, but I'm not interested in having misinformation here.

 

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