Author Topic: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records  (Read 9028 times)

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Offline DiwataMan

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2013, 07:23:22 PM »
I'm not convinced O'Mara and West believed they could get the information. They may have known they wouldn't, but also known that they'd gain nothing by questioning Judge Nelson's approach.

She says it in court, O'Mara agreed, O'Mara wrote it in his order demand. What's not convincing about that?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 07:27:47 PM by DiwataMan »

Offline MJW

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2013, 07:37:18 PM »
She says it in court, O'Mara agreed, O'Mara wrote it in his order demand. What's not convincing about that?

It doesn't convince me because it's also consistent with my hypothesis that O'Mara knew disagreeing would gain him nothing but the judge's annoyance.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 07:44:14 PM by MJW »

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2013, 07:45:27 PM »
It doesn't convince me because it's also consistent with my hypothesis that O'Mara knew disagreeing would gain it nothing but the judge's annoyance.

So you're saying that when the judge said they could go to the FBI and get what they want that at that moment when O'Mara said okay and can I also include the stuff I've already written up, that really he was saying, I'm not going to argue with this woman, fine, let's just pretend and write in the demand that we're going to the FBI office?

@12:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HhOahHNm5L4

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2013, 08:03:28 PM »
What is he trying to get?  I would think the bio's developed by the FDLE would be more important unless the FBI are the ones that actually developed them.

Offline MJW

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 08:06:58 PM »
So you're saying that when the judge said they could go to the FBI and get what they want that at that moment when O'Mara said okay and can I also include the stuff I've already written up, that really he was saying, I'm not going to argue with this woman, fine, let's just pretend and write in the demand that we're going to the FBI office?

@12:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HhOahHNm5L4

To some extent, yes. I think he's saying, "Okay, we'll try it your way."

Offline FromBelow

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2013, 08:11:23 PM »
I haven't been keeping up. Who filed the motions requesting FBI documents and who argued it in the hearings? Was it West or MOM that decided the defense team's approach in regards to how to obtain FBI records and presented arguments to Nelson?

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2013, 08:11:52 PM »
To some extent, yes. I think he's saying, "Okay, we'll try it your way."

I see, just wanted to add that of course I did not mean that to be verbatim your position, I should have said something like "you're 'essentially' saying...", okay, so what would be the purpose? And why play that sort of game with a murder in the second degree charge?

Offline MJW

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2013, 08:26:34 PM »
I see, just wanted to add that of course I did not mean that to be verbatim your position, I should have said something like "you're 'essentially' saying...", okay, so what would be the purpose? And why play that sort of game with a murder in the second degree charge?

Why play the game? Because Nelson holds all the cards. What choice do they have? If the defense thought they could subpoena the FBI, why did they try to get the information through the prosecutors' office? Why not ask the court to issue a subpoena in the first place? The rule for discovery is that the defense can only get information from the prosecutor if they can't get it with a reasonable amount of effort in some other way. Perhaps the defense is establishing that the FBI information can't be obtained in any other way.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2013, 08:29:02 PM »
I wonder if Nelson is looking through the eyes of a former prosecutor. Does she assume that the defense has the same authority to 'go look' at what other LE agencies may have as the state does? Maybe she doesn't get that the defense doesn't have as easy access to information.

Offline MJW

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2013, 08:46:04 PM »
I wonder if Nelson is looking through the eyes of a former prosecutor. Does she assume that the defense has the same authority to 'go look' at what other LE agencies may have as the state does? Maybe she doesn't get that the defense doesn't have as easy access to information.

I'm not sure I understand why Nelson does some of the things she does, but I've noticed she seems to resent the defense asking for information directly from the prosecutors. Perhaps that is from having been a prosecutor herself and having to deal with all those pesky defense attorneys.

I'll have to look around to see if I can find it,  but off hand I can't remember if the defense offered a reason for believing the prosecutors' office could get the information from the FBI.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2013, 07:23:52 AM »
You have no idea what evidence the FBI information might lead to.
At this stage, the defense has to play the percentages as to where to look for the good stuff.  One would think the SPD and FDLE have more nuggets than the FBI.  Has the defense made similar requests from them for everything that might be related?   I am sure Zimmerman has sympathizers in those agencies who might tip them off where to look.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2013, 01:01:31 PM »
Why play the game? Because Nelson holds all the cards. What choice do they have? If the defense thought they could subpoena the FBI, why did they try to get the information through the prosecutors' office? Why not ask the court to issue a subpoena in the first place? The rule for discovery is that the defense can only get information from the prosecutor if they can't get it with a reasonable amount of effort in some other way. Perhaps the defense is establishing that the FBI information can't be obtained in any other way.

Well, it looks like you were right, I think, I still can't make sense of it.

Regarding UNITED STATES OF AMERICAíS OBJECTION TO ORDER ON AMENDED DEMAND FOR SPECIFIC DISCOVERY
http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/103-regarding-united-states-of-america-s-objection-to-order-on-amended-demand-for-specific-discovery

Why didn't the judge know they couldn't get the info that way? At the start of all this she was even asking the defense if they have yet filed a subpoena. Why didn't O'Mara and West from all their experience combined remind the judge back in December that the info can't be gotten that way? As a matter of fact O'Mara never mentions it EVER. Why not?

Offline RickyJim

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2013, 01:03:28 PM »
Now O'Mara has explained what he wants.  It is details on the FBI civil rights violation investigation.  It is news to me that that will come into the criminal case.  Maybe we are like those poor souls in Plato's cave trying to figure out what in going on on the outside by seeing some shifting shadows.   ???
Quote
Because claims of racism, of profiling, and of civil rights violations are central to the national attention this case has received, and indeed were central to the calls for Mr. Zimmermanís arrest, the findings of the FBIís investigation are very relevant. We would hope that everyone who wants to base their opinion on factual information would want this discovery available as well.
Sounds like stuff for civil, not criminal action to me.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 01:10:39 PM by RickyJim »

Offline FromBelow

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2013, 01:35:02 PM »
Why didn't the judge know they couldn't get the info that way? At the start of all this she was even asking the defense if they have yet filed a subpoena. Why didn't O'Mara and West from all their experience combined remind the judge back in December that the info can't be gotten that way? As a matter of fact O'Mara never mentions it EVER. Why not?

Telling someone they are wrong and clueless often makes them more obstinate. Maybe MOM and West are trying to get Nelson to actually see the issues they face rather than directly confront her. West's approach of being aggressive and challenging towards Nelson certainly hasn't helped. It just made her dig in her heels, become more obstinate, and less inclined to fairly consider the defense's motions and arguments. IMO.

Offline MJW

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Re: FBI Objects to Judge's Order Compelling Disclosure of Case Records
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2013, 02:00:31 PM »
Not surprisingly, I agree with everything FromBelow just said. The W8 address issue perfectly illustrates this. If there's a legal justification for withholding the address from the defense (which there isn't), the defense shouldn't be allowed to ask for it at the deposition. If there's no legal justification, the state should have to release it immediately, since the 15 days allowed by the rules of criminal procedure have long passed.  Nothing is gained by forcing the defense to wait till the deposition. But Judge Nelson decided they have to wait, and nothing will change her mind.

 

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