Author Topic: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."  (Read 11672 times)

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Offline leftwig

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2013, 08:11:44 AM »
Sorry, that's not correct.

The dates are in the first post.

Brandy's comment was the day after the shooting, 2/27. Both of Tracy's were on 3/22, over three weeks later. I know of no others.

Thanks for the correction.  I thought he mentioned it once the same day BG was interviewed, but I can't locate any such statement.  Given the content of Tracy's statements (and knowing he hadn't been on the porch with TM this trip), I don't find the timing overly relevant.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2013, 03:01:28 PM »
Hmmm. "Are you following him?"  "Yeah."

Dispatcher: "Okay, we don't need you to do that."
George: "OK"

If Trayvon had continued walking as DD says (she also says Trayvon lost George), and George had continued following, the confrontation would never have occurred because Trayvon would have been back at the house before the NEN call ended. It certainly wouldn't have occurred at the T as witness #11 says. She heard the fight start at the T and move south. Her house is also closest to the T and she was the first to call  911.

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deleted by talkleft

See above. I know that Trayvon chose to be at the T. If he hadn't chosen to be there he wouldn't have been there with all his walking and running. Why was Trayvon at the T if not to be where George was?

EDIT: BTW, I'm not relying on George's statements. I've referenced DD's statements, the NEN call and witness #11's statements. I'm not sure why you would suggest I'm relying on George's statements.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 11:14:27 PM by TalkLeft »

Offline unitron

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2013, 04:03:21 PM »
I guess you missed my point. George was on the phone with the NEN dispatcher. He certainly wasn't interfering with Trayvon's movements or pursuing him during that time. Where Trayvon chose to be wasn't at the house he was staying at as it would be if after 'losing' George (according to DD) he went on with his business. i.e. He chose not to go to the house he was staying at. Or rather, if he did go to the house he didn't stay there. He chose to be, by some route, at the T where George was. He chose to confront George. Do you have another explanation for how he could keep walking (according to DD) for all the time George was still talking to the NEN dispatcher and not be back at the house? Maybe he was walking in place?

He was interfering with Trayvon's movements to the extent that Trayvon most likely thought it necessary to not move anywhere where he might be seen by George.

And the young lady's account doesn't have him going to find George just prior to the first exchange of words, but rather George finding him.

And the darkness may well have played a role in determining who walked where when at what rate.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2013, 06:23:38 PM »
...
See above. I know that Trayvon chose to be at the T. If he hadn't chosen to be there he wouldn't have been there with all his walking and running. Why was Trayvon at the T if not to be where George was?

EDIT: BTW, I'm not relying on George's statements. I've referenced DD's statements, the NEN call and witness #11's statements. I'm not sure why you would suggest I'm relying on George's statements.
You don't need George's or DeeDee's statements to conclude he more likely than not, never entered the dogpath until Martin met him the T.  Let us not speculate on what GPS data might reveal.  I am assuming the cops will back him up that his Ridgeline was parked where he said it was.  We have fairly conclusive evidence that his large flashlight wasn't working.  Also the dogpath had poorer illumination than the cut through between TTL and RVC due to the former having continuous shadows from two close rows of houses.  At that to credible witness testimony that the confrontation started on the north side of Witness 11's house and you have the preponderance of evidence supporting the claim.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 06:26:54 PM by RickyJim »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2013, 06:32:14 PM »

Well we know Trayvon ran while George was sitting in his truck, was probably a 10 second run away from home

On Google Earth, it looks like about 120 yards (110 meters) from Brandy Green's back door to the last point Zimmerman could have seen Trayvon from the truck.

World records for the hundred yard dash and hundred meter sprint are between 9 and 10 seconds.   

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Brandy says Trayvon "donít know anybody here". Really? Then who are these kids . . . Or the guys at the 711?

I think you're being over-literal. Trayvon obviously knew Brandy, and Chad.

The context was of Brandy saying Trayvon was bored. I think she meant he didn't have a buddy his own age to hang with.

The kids in the article are Chad's age, and the only thing they mention doing with Trayvon is playing football.

The 7-11 guys are older, and apparently not close enough to Trayvon to give him a ride home. Discussion of them is limited here, but I hope I can say that I'm not aware of any evidence that Trayvon had a prior acquaintance with them. If he did, Brandy may not have known about them.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2013, 07:18:17 PM »
FromBelow: George was on the phone with the NEN dispatcher. He certainly wasn't interfering with Trayvon's movements or pursuing him during that time.

whonoze: Hmmm. "Are you following him?"  "Yeah."

Diwataman: Trayvon ran while George was in his sitting in his truck. DD even says Trayvon was not aware of George "following" him after this until he later saw him out of his truck.

Offline MJW

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2013, 08:04:47 PM »
The 7-11 guys are older, and apparently not close enough to Trayvon to give him a ride home. Discussion of them is limited here, but I hope I can say that I'm not aware of any evidence that Trayvon had a prior acquaintance with them. If he did, Brandy may not have known about them.

I'm not saying I think they did give him a ride home, but what evidence, besides DeeDee, shows they didn't? What evidence shows they arrived in a car?

Offline RickyJim

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2013, 08:12:26 PM »
I'm not saying I think they did give him a ride home, but what evidence, besides DeeDee, shows they didn't? What evidence shows they arrived in a car?
Proving a negative is tough but I think Trayvon met them about 6:15 PM so it is doubtful they drove him home right away.  You know what is going to happen if we try to speculate on the details of how Trayvon spent his last hour.  ;)

Offline FromBelow

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2013, 08:23:37 PM »
I'm not saying I think they did give him a ride home, but what evidence, besides DeeDee, shows they didn't? What evidence shows they arrived in a car?

Why not drive Trayvon all the way to Brandy's house? There really doesn't seem to be anything to suggest Trayvon got a ride. And keep in mind that in the 7-11 video Trayvon was turning away from where these young men supposedly where and walking away from them (seen through the window of the 7-11).

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2013, 11:17:52 PM »
In that video interview he is talking about the back gate while pointing towards the front gate.

Also, later in the video, Tracy said that Trayvon came in the front gate (1:03-7).

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I have always thought that it was probably because he was coming off the freeway on his visits and used the back gate as his primary entrance.  The proximity of the Green TH to the gate is much closer and ease of access to/from the freeway.

What freeway?

It looks like the way to get to RATL from the rest of the world, is to take I-4 to Highway 417, exit to Rinehart Rd., and go to Oregon Ave., which goes by the front (N) gate of the complex.

The complex has a 15 mph speed limit. You can see one of the signs in the reenactment.

If I were going to or from a place inside the complex, I would want to use the entrance closest to that place, regardless of which way I was going or coming outside the complex. So I think Brandy and Tracy would have mainly used the back (SE) gate.

The gate is near the south end of the east wall. Brandy's unit faces east, the same way as the gate, which is just around the corner from it. Going out the front gate on foot, it would be natural to exit the unit by the front door. By car, which is probably how the adults usually went, the same would be true because the cars are parked in front of the units.

Early in the video (0:35), Tracy said that Trayvon came in by 'that back gate', gesturing toward the N gate, as you mentioned. In the next sentence, he said Trayvon 'was going to the back of the house'.

Later in the video (1:03-7), Tracy said this:

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When he said the clubhouse, I knew for a fact that Trayvon came in that, the front gate.

To me it sounds like Tracy might have been about to repeat 'that back gate', only at the last second recalling that the N gate is officially the front gate.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2013, 12:42:27 AM »
What evidence shows they arrived in a car?

In the 7-11 video, a car pulls into a parking space in front of the store just before the three come in (4:41), and backs out just after they leave (9:56).

To be honest, I didn't check that before I posted. So mea culpa on facts not in evidence.

It's also possible Martin didn't want a ride home. Zimmerman thought he didn't seem to mind being in the rain.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2013, 01:42:12 AM »
Take IH4 north to H. E. Thomas Parkway . . .

Oh, that freeway.  ;D

Right you are. In the other direction, out the SE gate, right on S. Oregon Ave., and you're at the Parkway in .36 miles.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2013, 03:04:05 AM »
What would sitting on the back porch weeks/months earlier have to do with knowing TM would have come in the back gate that night?

Where do you get weeks/months?

What would sitting on the back patio that night have to do with where he entered the complex, or whether he went to the front or the back of the townhouse?

Trayvon could have come in the house by the front door, walked all the way through, and sat on the back patio. He could have come in through the back, walked through, and sat on the front patio. What patio he sat on, or if he sat on a patio at all, has nothing to do with how he came into the house.

If Tracy thought Trayvon got home and sat on the patio, why did he say 'he was going to the back of the house', instead of 'he went to the back of the house'?

This was on the same day that Tracy said Trayvon was at most 70 yards from home, and lamented that he didn't have time to get home. Why did he say that, if he believed Trayvon did get home?

Tracy did say 'He was sitting out there', immediately after 'And I know he was going to the back of the house.' He didn't say what, if anything, those two thoughts had to do with one another.

Offline leftwig

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2013, 10:12:36 AM »
Tracy Martin: "He was trying to get home. Right down the street. We was sitting out on the back."

IF Tracy were as you suggest, talking about times he sat with TM on the back porch and had no inclination that he had been on the porch the night of the shooting, then it would have been weeks or months ago (whenever the last time they had been to Sanford) that he was talking about TM being on the porch (presumably with him since he used "we").  According to Tracy's statements, he dropped TM off on this trip and didn't see him all the way to BG's.  The boys came down and spent some time with them in Orlando and they were at the football game together the night before.  Tracy did not see TM the day he was killed.  Doesn't seem like there is any possibility that the reference to them sitting on the back porch took place on this trip.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: "He Was Sitting Out On The Porch."
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2013, 11:12:45 AM »
Why hasn't anybody asked Brandy or Tracy about these statements during the past year?  Is it because reporters and lawyers don't know about them or Brandy and Tracy were so upset and confused at the time they said them that the answer to why they said them is obvious, viz. they were just blurting out an image of Trayvon they had in their minds?


 

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