Author Topic: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12  (Read 22200 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2013, 11:44:37 AM »
I certainly don't put it past Gutman to be misleading, but using it like that would be misleading.

Caveat lector.

Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2013, 02:10:06 PM »
I certainly don't put it past Gutman to be misleading, but using it like that would be misleading.

Considering that his reports are a group effort of him, his producers, and his technical people, and that the network is ultimately responsible for the content, I don't see it as misleading at all.

Offline Evil Chinchilla

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2013, 04:08:35 PM »
Maybe DD was trying to pull a Crump. Figured if she wrote something out she wouldn't have to be "deposed".

In all seriousness, a written statement is something a lawyer or LE would want from her. I think someone was in the room with her just prior to the Crump interview. A lawyer that took (maybe even wrote out themselves) her written statement. The most likely candidates would be someone from Team Crump.

EDIT: Of course I don't know it for certain, but it really does seem someone wanted something in writing. Considering how reluctant she's been to tell the story I doubt it was her idea.

EDIT2: Looking forward to handwriting comparison to others in the room with her that day. Whoever those people were that didn't know how to spell Trayvon's name.
I don't assume it was written at the last minute. I do think it was written when DD was at the house prior to (waiting for) the interview with Crump. Do you really see DD, as reluctant as she evidently was to say anything, deciding on her own to put something in writing? I think someone pressed her for a written statement (or wrote it out for her) just like they had to press her to even come forward.

EDIT: Whoever wrote that out wasn't someone that knew the correct spelling of Trayvon's name. Which I'd think would exclude anyone that knew Trayvon for years like friends or family.

As an aside, there seems to be a notable absence of spelling errors in that letter. Having heard DD speak it's difficult for me to imagine her spelling skills would be much better.

I've seen enough examples of "style shifting" by people who regularly speak AAVE informally to feel confident that speaking style doesn't always dictate writing style, and that use of AAVE doesn't indicate anything about accuracy in spelling.

The note still contains enough "DeeDeeisms" like "He started walking then noticed someone was following him. Then he decided to find a shortcut cause the man wouldn’t follow him. Then he said the man didn’t follow him again." to match the way she spoke to BDLR. [BBM]

And the time/space/direction vaguenesses in the BDLR interview are matched here by the way she phrases the opening sentences that implies that "Trevon" encountered "the man" on the way to "the Cornerstore", not on the return trip from the store.

And again, I don't see why someone would have needed to write out this short note for her. Is she illiterate? Handless? Not allowed to hold pointy things after a nasty incident involving a Pentel Wow! and some beeyotch's left eye that got too close to DeeDee's bidness?

Since Team Crump doesn't want speculation like that, I'd think they'd forego any handwritten note that had to be written for her-- especially since it's so easy to ask her for a sample of her handwriting for direct comparison and raise the whole "Why didn't you write this yourself?" point in a way that challenges her credibility.

Also, even though it might be a note she wrote hoping this would get her out of being interviewed-- it certainly doesn't read like a personal note to Sybrina-- I don't think it was written under supervision by a lawyer, much less anyone in LE. Do any of the other handwritten witness statements end with a big "Thank You"?

Not to mention how Team Crump was avoiding allowing anyone in connection with LE-- at least on a sub-federal level-- to have access to DeeDee at this point, before they could launch her as "media evidence".

I do think, however, it's likely that DeeDee had help in formulating what she "heard" before she wrote this first draft of it, and that someone else used the word "complex". In the recently leaked ABC clip, we can hear how easily Crump could change her from "remembering" GZ responding "What are you talking about?" to "What are you doing around here?"
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 04:12:56 PM by Evil Chinchilla »

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2013, 07:52:01 PM »
Considering that his reports are a group effort of him, his producers, and his technical people, and that the network is ultimately responsible for the content, I don't see it as misleading at all.

I don't see what the number of people on the ABC crew has to do with anything. It isn't a question of singular versus plural. It's a matter of whether it would be misleading for a reporter to invent a name -- and a distinctive name at that -- for a witness without being clear that's what he's doing. I don't believe I've ever seen anything like that done. When reporters make up their own name for witnesses, they normally make it completely clear. Something like, "She wishes to remain anonymous, but we'll call he 'Jane' for this report." Even the term "identified" instead of "called" suggests the name is something more than the reporters own invention.

Other reporters refer to W8 as "DeeDee" without indicating it was a name plucked out of the air by Gutman.

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2013, 08:45:50 PM »
Then Trevon turned around and said why are you following me!!

I wonder what Trayvon turning around sounded like. Sort of a whifff? Did it sound anything like grass?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2013, 08:52:11 PM »
I wonder what Trayvon turning around sounded like.

'Slowly I turn, step by step . . .'

Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2013, 09:30:25 PM »
I don't see what the number of people on the ABC crew has to do with anything. It isn't a question of singular versus plural. It's a matter of whether it would be misleading for a reporter to invent a name -- and a distinctive name at that -- for a witness without being clear that's what he's doing. I don't believe I've ever seen anything like that done. When reporters make up their own name for witnesses, they normally make it completely clear. Something like, "She wishes to remain anonymous, but we'll call he 'Jane' for this report." Even the term "identified" instead of "called" suggests the name is something more than the reporters own invention.

Other reporters refer to W8 as "DeeDee" without indicating it was a name plucked out of the air by Gutman.

That was the point I was making, he'd be more likely to speak in the plural.

Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2013, 09:31:51 PM »
Evil Chinchilla, if only Ludlum were still around, you could have created his next title:

"The Pentel Incident"


 ;D

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #68 on: April 01, 2013, 04:30:03 PM »
Other reporters refer to W8 as "DeeDee" without indicating it was a name plucked out of the air by Gutman.

How would they know?

Whether or not W-8 was the source of the pseudonym, it would better serve the purpose of concealing her identity if it were not a nickname she actually used in her life.

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2013, 05:33:35 PM »
How would they know?

They might know from behind-the-scenes discussions with Crump, but that wasn't my point. My point was they treated the name as if it were some meaningful identification. It it was merely the invention of another reporter, they seem to have been misled into accepting it as something more.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5449
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #70 on: April 01, 2013, 05:52:06 PM »
My point was they treated the name as if it were some meaningful identification. It it was merely the invention of another reporter, they seem to have been misled into accepting it as something more.

Would you link to some of the articles you have in mind?

Offline RickyJim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1580
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #71 on: April 01, 2013, 06:38:35 PM »
Quote
It started to rain so he decided to walk through another complex because it was raining to hard.

Maybe somebody else suggested the word complex to her but I think we can be pretty sure this has a factual basis.  There was no pressure on her to make this up and certainly Colonial Village wasn't mentioned in the media discussion of the case at the time of the letter and interviews.  If you want to take her other statements at face value, Zimmerman first saw Martin at the mail kiosk there and followed him to TRATL.

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #72 on: April 01, 2013, 07:11:49 PM »
Would you link to some of the articles you have in mind?

How about the Soledad O'Brien's CNN interview with Crump, where she says to Crump:

Quote
Let's take a look at some of the evidence that we do know. You have talked to a young woman named DeeDee, Trayvon Martin's girlfriend. Has DeeDee spoken to police yet?

Offline MJW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #73 on: April 01, 2013, 07:16:50 PM »
Based on the spacing, I believe it's somewhat likely that in the SAO interview with Tracy Martin on 40/284, W8 is referred to by the name "Dee Dee."

Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #74 on: April 01, 2013, 07:19:14 PM »
Maybe somebody else suggested the word complex to her but I think we can be pretty sure this has a factual basis.  There was no pressure on her to make this up and certainly Colonial Village wasn't mentioned in the media discussion of the case at the time of the letter and interviews.  If you want to take her other statements at face value, Zimmerman first saw Martin at the mail kiosk there and followed him to TRATL.

That's the thing.  Apparently she's got whoever was first watching Trayvon starting out in a vehicle, but you'd think Trayvon would have said something along the lines of "That creepy old white guy that was looking at me in the other neighborhood drove around to the one I'm staying in and he's staring at me again.  I don't know what his deal is."

Has anyone figured out if she's indicated, via call start and dropped or stop times, the total length of time Trayvon reported being watched?

I had gotten the impression that he needed to burn off a lot of time near some mailboxes for things to work and wondered if it being mailboxes in the neighborhood to the west might make that work better, or if maybe he got stared at by a different person in the other neighborhood and didn't make the distinction between them, but now I've gotten hopelessly muddled.


 

Site Meter
click
tracking