Author Topic: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12  (Read 25075 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #75 on: April 01, 2013, 07:29:45 PM »
Maybe somebody else suggested the word complex to her but I think we can be pretty sure this has a factual basis.  There was no pressure on her to make this up and certainly Colonial Village wasn't mentioned in the media discussion of the case at the time of the letter and interviews.

Good points.

Quote
If you want to take her other statements at face value, Zimmerman first saw Martin at the mail kiosk there and followed him to TRATL.

The Colonial Village mail shade doesn't look like an inviting shelter, especially compared to the breezeways. More than one of the breezeways are closer to what I would think to be his likely route.

It would be hard for Zimmerman to keep Martin in view from Oregon Ave. Buildings would block the view most of the time, and if there was any traffic he would be blocking it by slowing to a walking pace

If Zimmerman followed Martin inside the complex, he would reach a dead end for vehicles, and need to backtrack. I don't think he left the Ridgeline in Colonial Village and followed on foot from there. I don't see how that can be squared with the NEN call.

Offline unitron

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #76 on: April 01, 2013, 07:34:14 PM »
Based on the spacing, I believe it's somewhat likely that in the SAO interview with Tracy Martin on 40/284, W8 is referred to by the name "Dee Dee."



Perhaps it's entirely coincidental that they chose the same fake name that Gutman did, but that seems unlikely.

If it was a fake name, why would it need to be redacted?

A certain professor has opined that Witness 8 "was assigned a fake name (Dee Dee) by the prosecution to protect her privacy."

Maybe it wasn't her "official" fake name until the state got involved.

 ;D


Offline unitron

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #77 on: April 01, 2013, 07:39:46 PM »
...

It would be hard for Zimmerman to keep Martin in view from Oregon Ave. Buildings would block the view most of the time, and if there was any traffic he would be blocking it by slowing to a walking pace

Not to mention that if he couldn't see Trayvon from Oregon Ave., how's Trayvon supposed to notice him watching him, and how does George get away with driving east on Oregon at a walking pace?

If Zimmerman followed Martin inside the complex, he would reach a dead end for vehicles, and need to backtrack. I don't think he left the Ridgeline in Colonial Village and followed on foot from there. I don't see how that can be squared with the NEN call.

He'd have had to go out and take a right onto Oregon and go east and turn into the main gate at TRATL to bring his truck with him to follow the kid coming in via one of the shortcuts.

But I'd think that would make the "watching" really, really blatant, and freak Trayvon a whole lot more, I would think.


Offline leftwig

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2013, 07:40:17 PM »
Maybe somebody else suggested the word complex to her but I think we can be pretty sure this has a factual basis.  There was no pressure on her to make this up and certainly Colonial Village wasn't mentioned in the media discussion of the case at the time of the letter and interviews.  If you want to take her other statements at face value, Zimmerman first saw Martin at the mail kiosk there and followed him to TRATL.

Colonial Village wasn't mentioned in the media, but we know the media got footage of GZ in the police station that wasn't authorized for release (the video that showed him in the police station supposedly showing that he had no injuries).  I think its quite possible it had been released to Crump that GZ says he first spotted TM by Taffe's.  What would be the best story to put forth that would make TM walking by Taffe's house seem benign?

I am not suggesting we know that this was something made up by her with or without someone's prompting.  I do think its seems pretty odd that she would offer very few details in this written "statement" (meaning this detail carried some significance), but she never mentioned this point in the Crump interview, in the media (that I recall) or in BDLR's interview.   In the BDLR interview, she focused on TM telling her it was about to rain and that he was about to get inside a thing, more specifically a mail thing/shed/covered area.  He had run into the gated place to the mail thing to get out of the rain (in the letter, she said it started to rain so he took the shortcut through another complex).  I guess its possible she just forgot about the route through the other complex or was mistaken in the timings of when it rained and how they triggered specific actions by TM, but why mention that specific detail of cutting through another complex because it started raining, but never mention it in the BDLR interview? 

I think its possible (even likely IMO) that the walking through the other complex was part of a early narrative to explain why GZ saw TM by Taffes (information that had been leaked to Crump).   This statement would have provided cover for TM being seen there.  The question with a less obvious answer is, why was walking through a neighboring complex never mentioned again?  Could it be that while this excuse provides cover for TM, it also provides cover for GZ, giving him a legit reason to call NEN?   

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #79 on: April 01, 2013, 08:27:09 PM »
Colonial Village wasn't mentioned in the media, but we know the media got footage of GZ in the police station that wasn't authorized for release (the video that showed him in the police station supposedly showing that he had no injuries).  I think its quite possible it had been released to Crump that GZ says he first spotted TM by Taffe's.  What would be the best story to put forth that would make TM walking by Taffe's house seem benign?
So maybe I jumped too soon to the conclusion that the other complex story probably wasn't made up.  Tracy might have known that Trayvon liked to take the shortcut through Colonial Village when he went to the mall and fed that information to DeeDee.  Oh, do I wish that GPS data was available.   :(

Offline FromBelow

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #80 on: April 01, 2013, 09:09:37 PM »
I haven't been keeping up so this may have been mentioned.

It occurs to me the only reason the last line in the letter is redacted is because it's DD's true name. Since it was given to Sybrina prior to the Crump interview doesn't that suggest that Crump had read the unredacted letter? I can't imagine Sybrina not showing it to him. The redaction seems too long to be just a first name. So, first and last name seems likely to me considering it reads more like a written statement than a personal letter. But didn't Crump claim he didn't know DD's surname in his affidavit?

Sure, he can deny he saw the letter but how likely is it Sybrina wouldn't have shown him? I could also be wrong about what's redacted, but what else could it be?


Offline RickyJim

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #81 on: April 01, 2013, 09:20:15 PM »
So maybe I jumped too soon to the conclusion that the other complex story probably wasn't made up.  Tracy might have known that Trayvon liked to take the shortcut through Colonial Village when he went to the mall and fed that information to DeeDee.  Oh, do I wish that GPS data was available.   :(
A poster on Diwataman's site suggested to me that the front gate videos would show GZ leaving and entering RATL if that is what he did.  That would be a way to check the totality of the Witness 8 story.  Are those videos in discovery?

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #82 on: April 01, 2013, 09:44:57 PM »
A poster on Diwataman's site suggested to me that the front gate videos would show GZ leaving and entering RATL if that is what he did.  That would be a way to check the totality of the Witness 8 story.  Are those videos in discovery?

I don't think those cameras at the front gate were working.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2013, 09:55:42 PM »
A poster on Diwataman's site suggested to me that the front gate videos would show GZ leaving and entering RATL if that is what he did. 

What do you mean by 'front gate videos', and why does you interlocutor think there were any?

The front gate cameras weren't working. Zimmerman told Singleton they had been down, early in the first interview (5:07). That they weren't working on 2/26/12 is confirmed by an FDLE report, somewhere in the 284 page release.

Audio

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #84 on: April 01, 2013, 09:59:56 PM »
Sure, he can deny he saw the letter but how likely is it Sybrina wouldn't have shown him?

If Crump wanted to maintain deniability about the last name, he could have told Sybrina he didn't want to see the letter. She could have read the contents to him.


Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #85 on: April 01, 2013, 10:02:20 PM »
It occurs to me the only reason the last line in the letter is redacted is because it's DD's true name.

If it wasn't her 'nickname', the explanation for its inclusion makes no sense.

Even the nickname would be potentially identifying, so it might be redacted.

Offline FromBelow

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #86 on: April 01, 2013, 10:04:10 PM »
If Crump wanted to maintain deniability about the last name, he could have told Sybrina he didn't want to see the letter. She could have read the contents to him.

Why wouldn't he want to know her last name? What's the point of being willfully ignorant of it?

Offline FromBelow

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #87 on: April 01, 2013, 10:05:43 PM »
If it wasn't her 'nickname', the explanation for its inclusion makes no sense.

Even the nickname would be potentially identifying, so it might be redacted.

Yes, but why use a "fake" name unless she didn't want to be identified? In which case why use a nickname that could identify her?

EDIT: Do you mean inclusion of the letter in BDLR's response? The best I can tell is it was included to somehow show her reluctance to be interviewed.

EDIT2: BDLR's introduction of the letter for quick reference:

Quote
Witness 8 didn't want to get involved in this case. Unlike some people involved in this
case, she has never sought out publicity. Quite the opposite is true. Witness 8 reluctantly
agreed to talk only after a review of Trayvon Martin's phone records established she was on the
phone with him. Even though she agreed to talk,she wanted her true identity to remain a secret.
Witness 8 did everything she could to not being identified, including using her nickname so that
she would not be subjected to what is now happening to her. See attached letter Witness 8
gave Victim's mother, Sybrina Fulton, prior to the recorded telephone call with Trayvon Martin's
attorney, Benjamin Crump. (Exhibit B).
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 10:13:48 PM by FromBelow »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #88 on: April 01, 2013, 10:27:07 PM »
Why wouldn't he want to know her last name?

To distance himself from her, and hence any problems that may turn out to be associated with her.

In his affidavit, Crump made a point of saying that he didn't know her last name. I assume he had some reason for that.


Offline unitron

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Re: Witness 8 Letter Dated 3/19/12
« Reply #89 on: April 01, 2013, 10:39:13 PM »
A poster on Diwataman's site suggested to me that the front gate videos would show GZ leaving and entering RATL if that is what he did.  That would be a way to check the totality of the Witness 8 story.  Are those videos in discovery?

Are you sure they aren't talking about the Colonial Village front gate and videos thereof?

Because I'm sure they know the TRATL front gate cameras weren't working, we've known that since hearing George tell the police that in the recordings of his interviews with them.  Remember him talking about the contact guy for the company responsible and they bring him his phone so he can give them the guy's number?

 

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