Author Topic: Witness #8, Thread II  (Read 11009 times)

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Offline TalkLeft

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Witness #8, Thread II
« on: March 31, 2013, 12:36:54 AM »
The Witness #8 Dee Dee thread topped 1,000 comments. Time to put it to rest and continue the discussion in this new thread.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 11:37:30 AM »
Responding to post on another thread.

De la Rionda asked Dee Dee if she and Trayvon were dating (2:26). Her response was an unintelligible grunt, but de la Rionda seems to have taken it as a negative.

Given BDLR's additional "I don't mean to get personal, but, I'm not gonna ask you any more, other than that," I think he took her going non-verbal at that point as a sign of embarrassment, not as a denial that they were involved romantically.

I didn't mean that he took it as a denial they were 'involved romantically'. I meant that he took it as a denial that they were dating. Because, you know, that was the question that he asked.

I had forgotten that Dee Dee did say something in response to the 'dating' question.

W-8, SAO, 4/2/12, 2:26-34
Quote
De la Rionda: OK. Did you guys ever start dating at all?

Dee Dee: [Unintelligible.]

De la Rionda: OK.

Dee Dee: We just [unintelligible].

De la Rionda: But would you guys talk on the phone all the time?

Dee Dee: Yeah.

After this, de la Rionda asked some telephone questions. It was almost a minute before he asked 'Were you kind of his girlfriend?' (3:22)

EC
Quote
[BBM]

What does this mean?

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 11:58:42 AM »
BBM = Bold By Me.  Others use Emphasis Added that are more legally inclined...   ;)

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 12:05:56 PM »

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 02:34:34 PM »
Responding to post on another thread.

Given BDLR's additional "I don't mean to get personal, but, I'm not gonna ask you any more, other than that," I think he took her going non-verbal at that point as a sign of embarrassment, not as a denial that they were involved romantically.

I didn't mean that he took it as a denial they were 'involved romantically'. I meant that he took it as a denial that they were dating. Because, you know, that was the question that he asked.
"Dating", "involved romantically", "an item", "seeing each other", "going out"... whatever.

It was a paraphrase, and the point was that BDLR seemed to sense embarrassment rather than denial on her part-- because her answers were going even more mumbly-- regardless of how it was phrased, which is why he shifted his questioning the way he did.

He was clearly trying to determine the extent of their relationship; however, I don't think BDLR's use of "dating" necessarily meant "Trayvon picks you up at your door and drives you to the Junior Sock Hop, or perhaps to the Bijou for a double feature followed by tasty treats at the malt shop. Then home by 11, with a quick kiss on the doorstep while Dad watches from the livingroom window."


(At least not unless BDLR used to be a scriptwriter for "Father Knows Best" or "Happy Days".)

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 02:37:12 PM »
BBM = Bold By Me.  Others use Emphasis Added that are more legally inclined...   ;)
Actually, I picked up "BBM" from you.

I used to use "Emphasis Added" elsewhere, but "BBM" is so much easier to type.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 03:12:55 PM »
He was clearly trying to determine the extent of their relationship

I couldn't disagree more. I'm not sure what he was trying to do, but I think it is absolutely clear that he was not trying to determine the extent of their relationship.

My best guess, is that he was trying to elicit a facsimile of the media narrative. Dee Dee being Trayvon's 'girlfriend' is part the narrative, so de la Rionda was trying to elicit that, or something remotely resembling it. Apparently he was satisfied with 'getting [to be] kind of'.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 03:15:15 PM by nomatter_nevermind »

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 05:16:48 PM »
I couldn't disagree more. I'm not sure what he was trying to do, but I think it is absolutely clear that he was not trying to determine the extent of their relationship.

My best guess, is that he was trying to elicit a facsimile of the media narrative. Dee Dee being Trayvon's 'girlfriend' is part the narrative, so de la Rionda was trying to elicit that, or something remotely resembling it. Apparently he was satisfied with 'getting [to be] kind of'.
But now you're getting into why BDLR was asking the questions.

Since "the media narrative" contained the following public statement from Crump:

"This was her really, really close personal friend. They were dating. [...] And we all were teenagers, so we can imagine how that is when you think somebody's really special, and you call it puppy love or whatever you want to call it."

I don't think it was solely BDLR's goal to get an acknowledgment of the validity of the specific words "dating" or "girlfriend", but to get W8 past her discomfort and to elicit some statement for the record from her that supported Crump's allegations.

Therefore, he was indeed "trying to determine the extent of their relationship," and he was satisfied as soon as he squeezed "Yeah, we was gettin' there" out of her.

And he probably breathed a sigh of relief that he avoided the following potential exchange:

"Would you say you were feeling 'puppy love'?"

"Nuh-uh. I got a kitten."

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 05:29:55 PM »
But now you're getting into why BDLR was asking the questions.

You got into that when you wrote 'He was clearly trying to . . .'

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 05:32:04 PM »
"Would you say you were feeling 'puppy love'?"

"Nuh-uh. I got a kitten."


 ;D   ;D

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 05:52:17 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Evil Chinchilla on Today at 05:16:48 PM

    But now you're getting into why BDLR was asking the questions.
You got into that when you wrote 'He was clearly trying to . . .'
No, that's what BDLR was doing-- getting DeeDee to establish, for the record, the nature of her relationship with Trayvon-- not why he was doing it.

Why he was doing it was to get her to establish, for the record, that the Crump-fed media depiction of her as Trayvon's "girlfriend" was correct.

And BDLR did about as thorough a job of it as he did at establishing, for the record, that that the Crump-fed media depiction of her as having gone to the hospital "or somewhere" was correct.

Offline unitron

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2013, 09:36:30 PM »
...

"Would you say you were feeling 'puppy love'?"

"Nuh-uh. I got a kitten."


Now I know why they call you evil.

New keyboard, please.

 ;D

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 10:22:28 PM »
Actually, I picked up "BBM" from you.

I used to use "Emphasis Added" elsewhere, but "BBM" is so much easier to type.

My middle initials are BI for bad influence!

Offline unitron

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2013, 07:20:01 PM »
From the "Thinking like a lawyer makes you paranoid" department:

I just happened to notice that when BDLR administers the oath to Witness 8 back in April, 2012, he doesn't say "that all of the testimony you give here is etc, etc,", and that the oath is not administered until after she gives her name.

Yeah, I know.

But I couldn't help noticing.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Witness #8, Thread II
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2013, 09:17:38 PM »
Responding to post on another thread.

Didn't Gutman interview DeeDee own his own on some other occasions(s)?

There are two clips that I know of that seem to be from such interviews, and six others that might be.

HT DiwataMan.

ABC News, 3/20/12, 0:02-6
Quote
He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on.

Aired on 3/20, the above clip seems more likely to be a missing piece of the Crump interview.

ABC News, 3/28/12
Quote
And then, Trayvon come and said, the man was still behind him. And then, I come and say "Run!"

Gutman introduced this clip by saying 'Tonight, ABC News spoke exclusively with Martin's sixteen year old girlfriend, DeeDee.'

ABC News, 3/29/12, 2:07-13   
Quote
Trayvon did not say that at all. The only thing Trayvon told that man was, "Why are you following me f-?" [gunshot]

This was presented as an answer to Robert Sr.'s interview FOX Orlando interview on 3/28, the previous day. The ABC segment has a clip from that interview (1:24-58), corresponding to 2:31-3:26 on the FOX segment. It doesn't have the question that W-8 was responding to.

Another ABC segment, which also aired on 3/29, includes four clips. They are spliced into a narrative, without any comment on when they were recorded.

2:03-6
Quote
He say, this dude look, this white dude look like he was following him.

2:48-51
Quote
He was [unintelligible]. He said this man was getting close.

ABC's captions say the part I can't understand is 'nervous, because'.

2:53-55
Quote
I said, "Run!"

2:59-3:03
Quote
I'm hearing Trayvon say, "Why you following me for?" This man say "What you doing around here?"

ABC News, 4/3/12, 2:04-11
Quote
He was walking fast when he say, that this man behind him again. He come and say this dude look like he about to do something to him.

This one is also spliced into a narrative, with no information on when it was recorded. It's a watered down version of 'look like he about to beat him' (3:00 in the 5 minute ABC clip).

 

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